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verbatime
Senior Contributor

Re: Saw this today in the Sunday Paper


@Snooky1953 wrote:

And I just read this tonight.

 

"Based on the assertions of Roger Hedgecock a right-wing radio show host, the meme that the five worst recent mass shootings were committed by registered Democrats is making its way through e-mail chains and social media. Hedgecock asserts, without providing any evidence or sources, that the Ft. Hood shooter, the Virginia Tech shooter, the Aurora Theater shooter and Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook infamy were all “registered Democrats”. He acknowledges that Klebold and Harris (the Columbine Colorado shooters) were too young to be registered voters but asserts, again without providing any evidence, that Harris and Klebold’s parents were progressives or liberal Democrats. All of these charges are utterly baseless and perhaps do not even deserve a response. However, given the effectiveness of right-wing lies in saturating social media and duping the incurious (a far too numerous segment of the population), some more detailed debunking is in order.

To the best of my ability, I have attempted to research these claims with as much rigor as possible. If there is any evidence for or against my debunking, I welcome that evidence in the spirit of free inquiry. Let me also state that given that neither major political party condones mass shooter violence in any way, shape or form, and that all these acts are individual acts of violence that are not sanctioned by either elected Democrats or Republicans (at least not mainstream leaders in either party), the very notion that they are acting on behalf of a political party is itself problematic. This is not to say that mass shootings are apolitical acts, but rather it is to say that as political acts they may express an ideology (racism, misogyny, entitlement, psychosis, etc) but they do not in general express alignment with a political party or if they do it is not an association that the Democrats or Republicans would accept as legitimate (neither party wants to claim James Holmes or Adam Lanza as a member in good standing, no matter what Holmes or Lanza feels about them). In any case, we can categorically REJECT the notion that any of the shooters in question has been shown to be a registered Democrat on a case by case basis.

1. Nidal Hasan (the Ft. Hood shooter) lived in either Virginia (his state of residence prior to being sent to Ft. Hood) or Texas, neither of which has partisan registration. Therefore the claim that he was a "registered Democrat" is false. I do not know if he voted or how he voted, but I do know that unless he was registered in a state in which he did not reside, that the claim that he is a registered Democrat is FALSE.

2. Since Virginia does not have partisan registration there is also no way to tell whether Seung-Hui Cho was a Democrat, but again because there is no partisan registration in the state we can say that the claim that he is a registered Democrat is FALSE.

3. The allegation that James Holmes was registered Democrat was based on a Breitbart blogger Joel B. Pollack, who found voter registration records for a DIFFERENT James Holmes who was about the same age. Alex Jones’ Infowars and other right-wing websites then dutifully repeated the lie without verifying it. It was later determined that the Colorado Theater Shooter James Holmes was NOT registered to vote, as evidenced by this retraction: {Newly-released information on the suspect’s birthdate (which, as indicated in our initial report, was a slight mismatch), combined with new details Breitbart News has obtained about the suspect’s likely addresses, together suggest that the suspect may, in fact, not have been registered to vote.}. However, most of right-wing media continued to promote the lie without printing Breitbart sites retraction. The claim that James Holmes was a registered Democrat is FALSE.

4. The claim that Adama Lanza is a registered Democrat has been suggested based not on any evidence that he was registered as one, but on the rather dubious claim that because Connecticut has almost 2 to 1 Democratic registration over Republicans, he was probably a Democrat. (Claim: "Adam Lanza, NewtownConn murderer. Registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by about a 2-1 ratio in Connecticut. The odds are therefore that the Lanza family are (sic) Democrats.") This of course is a bogus argument to begin with, but even if we were to make the claim that a mass shooter’s political affiliation must be the same as the majority of the people in his area, we can debunk this foolish idea by taking this shoddy analysis down to the local level. Yes, Connecticut voted for Barack Obama, BUT the city of Newtown voted for Mitt Romney. If we look at the results we find that Mitt Romney defeated Barack Obama in Newtown by 7451-6784 votes or 51.7 percent to 47 percent. Republican Senate candidate and Tea Party favorite Linda McMahon carried the city over Democrat Chris Murphy by an even larger margin. Add in the other information we have that Lanza’s mother was a “doomsday prepper” and a home schooler in a Republican-leaning city and we can pretty well dispense with the erroneous assumption that Lanza must have been a Democrat. We can therefore claim that with no evidence to support the claim, the assertion that Lanza was a Democrat is not demonstrated and that in the absence of any evidence it is likely FALSE.

5. Klebold and Harris of course were not old enough to vote and they had no apparent political affiliation. Allegations that they came from families of Democrats or liberal progressives appear to have no sources to substantiate those claims. What little ideology the boys demonstrated owed mostly to an admiration for Timothy McVeigh not Ted Kennedy. Harris’ father was a retired Air Force pilot and Eric Harris wanted to join the Marine Corps. The boys lived in Littleton, Colorado a relatively conservative and affluent suburb of Denver. The claim that their parents were Democrats is UNSUBSTANTIATED. Any suggestion that the two boys were Democrats is demonstrably FALSE.

Interestingly, Hedgecock and those on the far right have conveniently overlooked a number of cases where ideology is clearly right-wing. The acts below are instances of right-wing violence that are unequivocally committed by people who are openly hostile to liberalism. While this does not mean these killers are Republicans, it is quite clear that they are RIGHT-WINGERS and that they have far more in common with Mr. Hedgecock, Alex Jones and the other gun-toting conspiracy nuts on the right than with any evils associated with the Democratic Party or liberalism. In addition, to the list below is the obvious case of Timothy McVeigh, who I have not included because his crime was not committed with firearms. It was however, committed by a right-winger and the carnage was on a massive scale.

For example, on July 18, 1984 James Oliver Huberty, who told his wife he hated “children, Mexicans and the United States” opened fire inside the McDonald’s Restaurant in San Ysidro, CA using a Browning P-35 Hi-Power 9mm pistol, Winchester 1200 pump-action 12-gauge shotgun, and an Israeli Military Industries 9mm Carbine (Uzi) – all legally acquired. He killed 21 and injured 19 before he was shot dead by police.

On Aug. 10, 1999 White supremacist Buford O. Furrow, Jr., fired 70 rounds with an Uzi-type submachine-gun inside the lobby of the Jewish Community Center in Granada Hills, CA wounding three children, a teenage counselor and an office worker. He then carjacked a woman’s Toyota at gunpoint, dumped it behind a motel and murdered US Postal Worker Joseph Santos with a Glock 9mm handgun.

On July 27, 2008 Former U.S. Army private, Jim David Atkinsson, who hated Democrats, liberals, African Americans and homosexuals, using a Remington Model 48 12-guage shotgun, murdered two people and injured seven others inside the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, TN.

The day after Obama’s inauguration, white supremacist Keith Luke went on a killing spree in Brockton, Massachusetts. His goal was to kill as many Jews, blacks and Hispanics as possible. When questioned by investigators, the deranged gunman who had stockpiled hundreds of rounds of ammunition, proclaimed that he was fighting the extinction of the white race.

A little over a month later, Donnie Baker, a former Republican campaign volunteer shot seven Chilean immigrants in Florida. Those who knew him said he was obsessed with the fear that illegal immigrants were taking over the country.

In April of 2009, Richard Popalowski, a white supremacist in Pittsburgh, shot and killed three police officers following a domestic disturbance call. He apparently thought that Obama was part of a government conspiracy to seize all guns, and he feared the government would take his guns away.

Later the same month, a Fort Walton Beach Florida man who thought the Obama administration was conspiring against him, shot and murdered two sheriff’s deputies.

On May 31, 2009 Dr. George Tiller was murdered in his own church by a right-wing “pro- life”gun man who decided to express his belief in the sanctity of human life by executing a medical doctor.

Eleven days later a right-wing white supremacist and Holocaust denier walked into the National Holocaust Museum and killed an African-American security guard. Two weeks later, three Neo-Nazis were arrested for bombing a diversity office in Scottsdale, Arizona.

On April 20, 2010 a member of the Sovereign Citizen movement was arrested after a failed attempt to take over a Tennessee county courthouse.

Exactly one month later, in West Memphis Arkansas, Sovereign citizens Jerry and Joe Kane murdered two police officers before they themselves were shot and killed in the ensuing shoot out with police.

On July 18, 2010 Byron Williams, an angry unemployed man, was arrested by police after they discovered a car full of weapons and ammunition that he had planned to use to kill progressives. He was on his way to the non-profit Tides Foundation Center, a favorite target of vitriol from Glenn Beck’s radio show.

On Jan. 8, 2011 22-year old Jarold Lee Laughner killed six people, including a judge and a nine-year old child, and wounded 13 others, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), using a 9mm Glock 19 pistol during a public meeting in a supermarket parking lot near Tuscon, AZ.

On Aug. 5, 2012 Wade Michael Page, a 40-year old white supremacist and U.S. Army veteran murdered six people and wounded four others inside a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, WI with a Springfield XD(M) semi-automatic pistol."

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-idea-that-recent-mass-shooters-are-mostly-registered-democrats-i... 

 


yea, bla bla bla,,, check this out.

 

In Aurora the MSM found a Tea Party member with the same name as the shooter and attacked him for being conservative and owning guns. The guy was in his 50's, was an active Tea Party member and was a hunter. After he contacted them they didn't even set the record atraight they just dropped it with no apology.

 

 

youbleepingcockroaches

verbatime
Senior Contributor

Re: Saw this today in the Sunday Paper

since when do you mother**bleep**ers care about the truth????????

 

http://networkedblogs.com/Hiiwk

 

verbatime
Senior Contributor

Re: Saw this today in the Sunday Paper

Here's your common thread... disbute this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blame that on the NRA... it's the socialist way.  Not a lot of difference between fascism and communism.... That is Hitler and Stalin.  What we both have in common is gun control... You want the guns to be controlled by those who caused the mess in the blue areas and we want the guns to be controlled by the ones with common sense in the red area.  So the common thread is we both want gun control.  And we are giving control over to your savior in the whitehouse who will give to a small elite group of folks who believe Americans are using too much of the planets resources.  Do you really care about human life?

 

 

You who don't lift a hand to help are complicit in the murder of over 50 million murdered since roe v wade.

 

Snooky1953
Senior Contributor

Re: Saw this today in the Sunday Paper

How many numbers of dead people are you claiming Obama has anyway?  The first one was supposed to be the number of a French immigrant who was born in 1890 and died about 10 years AFTER Obama supposedly got his number from a dead man.  Plus it was even the same number that Mr.Ludwig --045-26-8722--and Obama's number--042-68-4425. Now you come up with something new.  You guys supply most of us with huge amounts of merriment.  Keep it up!

bruce MN
Advisor

Interesting 2nd Amendment proposal

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: Interesting 2nd Amendment proposal

That is funny, you do realize there are around 10 million deer hunters in the USA? All of them would need to join the militia and go through extensive training, and met the approval of higher ups. Do people even think?    

 

Might be a good idea if you made the militias report just to the governors,  with no input from mordor on the Potomac.  It would be the largest army in the world.

 

 

bruce MN
Advisor

Re: Interesting 2nd Amendment proposal

Did I say it was a good idea?  J

 

ust thought it was rather creative and quirky and that some one here might get a kick out of it.  And also decide for themselves if they thought it was a serious proposal or tongue -in -check.

gough whitlam
Senior Contributor

Re: How soon

Yes I do.  As soon as the troops are bought home from 2 wars and the 2 billion a week stops.  Wall street is recovering and the dow is back to where it was. Both will be very healthy benchmarks for any government to reign in expenditure.

 

With any government borrowing 6 trillion, no person in their right mind could expect any massive reduction of debt or economic improvement inside 5 years.  Now,  If that prediction is proven to be correct and the dems get kicked out at the next election, I do not want to hear how it was the incoming republican president who saved the economy.  If the dems win the next election and there is no improvement at the end of their next term, I want you to remind me of it.  No doubt you will.

 

But since you asked the question, no doubt you also have a theory on it.  Would you be so  brave to expound your theories on the recovery and why.

 

Be careful, as I am full of information on this issue.

gough whitlam
Senior Contributor

Re: 0bama`s gun push lowers his approval


@BA Deere wrote:

Hey Gough, just to explain things a bit better, a "lame duck" is just term to describe a politician that with no longer have to worry about getting re elected.  A lame duck isn`t necessarily a bad thing, it`s that a "ideolgue" in their zest for a legacy will feel free to do some very unpopulist measures. I fully understand what it means.  In this country it means a prime minister which has no power at all is is virtually a dead man walking waiting for his defeat.

This is a problem with the "term limit" train of thought, you increase the number of lame ducks and you lose that hammer to keep the politician even 10% honest....there was a reason 0bama "never mentioned guns in his 1st term". I disagree - he never mention it all because although there was shootings etc, he was no doubt aware of the power of the NRA. It is only now he has the repigs on the back foot, an emphatic election win and the power of public opinion is gathering behind him.  He will very soon play the politics of division.  That means he will use the repigs obstinance to pass legislation as a tool to gather more support from the public.  I will be vindicated bythis as I have seen it happen hear.   4 year terms won't enter the debate when he has reserve powers to get things done.  I know you will all bellow about that blessed constitution but it will matter none.  Those powers are there for presidents to use when he has nothing but obstruction in either house.  You will see them used before long.

 

  As to the term "anti christ" that doesn`t mean someone with no religion, the antichrist is a person that will appear in the end times, that will claim to be Jesus.  He will have super-natural powers..and yes, both you and Canuck will believe in God at that time, the antichrist will perform miracles.  Don't ever be so presumptuos to what I might do.  I will never believe there is a god, heaven or hell.  I will not be intimidated or threatened by you with such symbolistic remarks.  I take extreme umbrage to you even suggesting I should feel guilty about my beliefs and use your beliefs as a threat to mend my ways. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!  ..But He loves you.  I am sorry comrade but get the next size up - that doesn't fit me.

 

  0bama isn`t the anti christ, but the fact that he has fooled so many people shows how popular the real antichrist will be, when he does show up. Obama has not fooled anyone.  He won two elections but his main fault is he couldn't keep some of his promises because of obstruction in the parliament and lack of funds 9 which he inherited).  You continue to blow hard on these conspiracy theories like he is some outrageous communist with Al Queda connections.  You need to have some medication for your paranoia and let democracy run its course, The right wing paranoia eminated from DC is now becoming repulsive and to watch the "fair and balanced" Fox is a prime example.

 

Imagine someone that can snap his fingers and make the blind have sight, make food appear to the hungry, make the national debt disappear..we see how people respond to "free stuff",  well the anti christ will have alot of free stuff, he will be very easy to follow. You are right, I can only imagine how someone could snap their fingers and the blind can see.  What rubbish.  Get a grip on yourself for the sake of humanity.  But since you bought it up the only person who has a chance of achieving the three miracles mentioned above and still remain ungodly like, is Obama. 

 

Mate, I don't want to harp all day over this but when you bring conspiracy theories and religion into a debate over Obama, your argument is destroyed immediately.  Never will any of those insinuations have any effect on the US. Never.  If you believe all that rubbish I think you had better re asses who you are and where you are going.  While you have democracy, you are safe.  You only have to learn how to accept it.


 

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: How soon

My theory has no bearing on who is in office, or what party they belong to.

I think we will only have a 'permanent' recovery, when the debt/deficts are addressed.   Now, I don't think they have go fall to zero, but the levels we are running at, are unsustainable, and I can't see how it can be healthy, long-term.


Until that happens, I think all we will have will be temporary upticks, and spurts of growth (like when the stimulus/QE money hit) and perhaps bubbles in certain sectors, as those with money to invest seek out various investments, but I cannot see our long-term fiscal health returning, until the country stops bleeding money so fast.

 

If we keep spending so much more than we get in, we get more debt, and possibly another credit downgrade.

 

If we raise taxes too much, we stifle the economy.


If we simply print money, we will get inflation, quite possibly wild inflation.

 

What we need is a balanced approach, to do some real work towards deficit cutting.