173 Extremists

[Samnospam]

Can't. Impossible because once you arrive at facism you go nowhere until usurped.

If that is your contention, and the socialist in the democratic party were happy to arrive at a fascist health care system, then socialist are satisfied with fascism.  Understand?  

The real goal is power over others, the mechanism is secondary.

If freedom is the measure, is it half way between socialism and fascism or at the opposite end of the scale?   You've been trained that fascism is bad, socialism is good, so you'd probably prefer some kind of three dimensional scale so you're not made uncomfortable with being so close to a fascist, not possible.   Socialism requires force as does fascism, get comfortable with it.

[bruce MN]

Where do you get the idea that i was or have ever said that socialism is good? Preferable to fascism? Most certainly. Check the body counts if nothing else.

Capitlalism...participatory democratic capitalism is best. Capitalists will and should contiinue to power this nation. When we've been closest to that is when we've done the best....we have prospered the most across the board.....we have (and here is the incredible irony...your word) been in the best shape morally and civicly.  Regulated to a degree to stave off the things that open veins to graft and theft of assets and earnings.

The nation won't fold up. We'll keep growing corn, fixing roads, treating the ill to some degree.. But if we can't keep our secular democracy that light in the window of the  proverbial mansion on the hill is going to burn out.

One hope that I hold is that when the masters of finance and business get tired of playing ping pong on the face of a needle with each other and realize that they need to engage the people as laborers and consumers that they will finally come to the conclusion that the sick marriage that they entered into with the thumpers and cultural warriors needs to come to an end. That probably happens when we come to the universal realization....most likely much, muchtoo late to really do anything much.. that something effective REALLY does need to be done about energy and people start to look around wondering why we haven't sooner...only find **bleep** Armey and Tony Perkins standing there surrounded by a bone yard.

[Samnospam]

Socialized retirement, education, health, nutrition, housing backed by force all favored by you.

[bruce MN]

Social security.

Public education

Private health care supplemented by progams for the elderly and the indigent.

Abundant food produced by individuals and cororations sold to individuals and institutions on the open market.

All stuff that the vast majority of Americans like and want to have continue. What others around the world who don't have would prefer to.

And, of course, a massive private dwelling infrastructure, built and owned by private individuals.....no one ever built or purchased a home with a gun held to their head...not by an agent of the government, nor a builder, nor a realtor nor another private homeowner. Pure, raw capitalism.

If that's socialism, so be it. It's also democracy. What you seem to prefer is theocratic totalitarianism. Just another breed of facsism.

You bring up the housing bit as a seque to F & FI'm sure, as some great socialist scheme set in place to control the masses. But  I've always been curious Sam. Does this quirky breed or strain of libertarianism that you pose as representing here demand that the crimes commited in the glorious mortgage finance industry be investigated, punished and restituted? Or were those just folks operating under the flag of liberty and freedom, making their way through the frontier and if they had been left to their own devices and the nasty govt. wouldn't have been involved everybody would be paid down to date on homes that were easily affordable. That no deriviates would have been required to make the pigs fly. That each little bank with X number of ounces of gold  in the vault would have just a handful of really solid, manageable loans. And somehow we would also have a vibrant and prosperous building supply and construction industry. And stable, prosperous Mom and Pop  furniture and appliance stores in every neighobrhood and village.  

The f'in banks didn't want that scene. at least the new post Glass-Stegal repeal laffy-taffy banks didn't...so we got them.

[Samnospam]

Force. Forced to participate, robbed to pay for. Force. As in not free to choose. Popularity is not the issue. A persons freedom can not be voted on.

[bruce MN]

Good luck with yours.

I hear Paraquay is nice this time of year. Just remember to bring along alot of good currency or coin. Or at least an open willingness to do what is required of you.