2nd Revolution

[schnurrbart]

All you government haters and revolution fans out there--What do you think about the Nevada rancher who had defied the BLM and has not paid his leasing fees since1993 and has called in armed militia from all over the country?

[BA Deere]

I don't know enough about the Bundy deal to comment, just the way it sounds is he's a rancher that doesn't want to pay his grazing fees to the BLM, that some claim are "unconstitutional"..... well welcome to America in the new century.

I'm afraid with emotions running high and armed flag wavers coming in from all over, its a tinderbox. Cooler heads like the state's governor and a " Bo Gritz " should peacefully back this down.

Or this is a govt false flag manufactured tragedy in the making to paint gun owners, libertarians and talk radio in a bad light. Just like Reno is cut out of the same asshoIe as Eric holder, this could be another "Waco"... anyway I'm not taking their bait, a bunch of cattle isn't the hill worth dying on.

[r3020]

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@schnurrbart wrote:
All you government haters and revolution fans out there--What do you think about the Nevada rancher who had defied the BLM and has not paid his leasing fees since1993 and has called in armed militia from all over the country?

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These turtles have been around for 200 billion years at yet they are going to be killed out by some cattle?? The dinosaurs died yet these turtles survived. They survived many of glaciers yet now the need the government to get rid of 900 head of cattle scattered across  100 or so square miles?? Something tells me it's not about the turtles. Something doesn't pass the smell test here. I guess if you like your turtles you get to keep your turtles. Period.

[schnurrbart]

The BLM has been around since 1948 so it can't be called part of the "new American Century". The rate is pretty reasonable and is based basically on market values. The current fee is $1.35 per animal unit per month and you have the right to graze for 10 years and the number of acres would depend onwhat is available in your area. They are trying to saying Nevada state law supersedes Federal law and are saying that what the Federal Govt is doing is unconstitutional. Guess they need to study their constitution a little more--Article 6 clause 2.

[schnurrbart]

The turtles are not the main problem. The main problem is he has refused to pay his fees for grazing the land since 1993. I don't know for sure yet but I doubt the turtles are in the entire lot of acres he has leased and probably not even in that area under that lease. I would guess that since he doesn't believe the BLM has the right to charge him, he just went into as many other acres as he saw fit and that included where the desert tortoises are. He owes over a $ million. I suspect with our debt as it is, they would like to be paid. The tortoises will be like the back taxes that got capone.

[r3020]

I don't know enough about the details to say. If he wants to lease the ground he needs to pay his lease. A million dollars seems high. 900 head of cattle, which is the number I have read, time 1.35/month/20 years comes out to a little less than 300,000. Maybe there in lies the problem.

[Husker-J]

From what I have heard, his family has leased the same ground for generations from the State, and I think (but am not sure) that he has paid the State like he always did. 
Anyway, what happened, is that they determined that his cattle were grazing on 'tortise' ground, and so the Feds want some $$$ as well, for letting his cattle graze there.   Now, they are not saying that the cattle need to be out, because of the tortise, but rather that he has to pay the Feds, for the right to use the tortise's land, and the rancher is arguing that it is State land, not under Federal jurisdiction.

Just to muddy the water farther, there are other ranchers, who were NOT delinquant on their lease payments, who have what is supposedly a valid contract with the State, and the Feds kicked off their cattle, as well.

My feeling is that it will boil down to a State versus Federal jusridiction over the land within that State.

[schnurrbart]

I don't know. They said he only has about 400 head on it right now but maybe he had many more some years. He hasn't been fighting the amount that I have heard, just whether the BLM can charge him at all. He says he owns the land through preemptive something. Can't remember that. One thing for sure--calling in a bunch of highly armed rambo wannbees is NOT the way to go about it!!

[Husker-J]

Federal law Only supercedes State law, within the specific boundaries set within the Constitution.   If this has never been challenged before, I see it going all the way to the Supreme court.

I heard many times that State law cannot supercede Federal law, but if that is true, why were things like the Federal Speed limit thrown out?

[schnurrbart]

Not quite. His family leased from the state until 1948 when it became federal land under the control of the BLM. They paid the BLM I think until 1993 when he decided to not do it any more. Read this: http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html