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Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

Agree jput, well said.

 

I would add that it would take a lot more land to grow enough "organically" produced food too if that were the only way.

 

Have a neighbour that grows "organic" crops.

He does not need nearly as much bin space but has to clean everything  before he bins it and I am sure there is still lots of foreign material in the bins.

jput
Senior Contributor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

If there continues to be a niche market where some people will pay more for oganic stuff,  more power to the guy growing it.  Sadly,  some of those guys aren't content to get paid premium prices for their organic stuff.   Too many also run down the products produced by other farmers.

 

Organic production isn't easy from what I've seen.   Lots of extra tillage passes,  cultivating (but there's still weeds in the row between the plants which reduce yield).   But again,  if certain people want to pay more for their food,  they're certainly free to spend their own money on it. 

 

Well back to Johnaa's conspiracy theories..........yawn.

 

 

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

A producer definitely needs the premium to cover all the extra tillage and wear and tear on his land from that activity.

 

We have looked at the 'organic' selection in grocery stores and wonder why anyone would pay extra money for less quality.

jput
Senior Contributor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

I don't think it is automatic that organic is less quality.   I really don't think any farmer should disparage other farmers' products.  See way too much of that coming from some (not all)  of those in organics.   Worse yet,  is the outright lies that are told.

 

If some consumers are willing to pay for a perception that organics are better,  great for the farmer that produces it.  No,  not all is perfect in the organic sector.   Organic Valley is marketing organic beef imported from Australia.   Wonder if they give consumers the impression that everything Organic Valley is American produced? 

 

Anyhow,  we have products for those who wish to buy non-gm products.   That label is " USDA certified organic" .   No need for any additional labeling for gm content products.  Choices already exist and are well defined.

 

 

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

Yes you are right I should not put others product down in general but I was talking of a specific case.

A store that has an 'organic' fresh vegetable/fruit section and while there is some product that looks top quality a lot of it does not compare to the produce in the rest of the fresh vegetable/fruit section.

 

I fully agree about labelling.

 

BTW I have grown IP soys for some years now with a nice premium for non GMO beans.

Have a neighbour who claims premium is not enough to cover less yield.

Says we do not know what yield drag we have with our special beans since we can not do side by side tests.

May have to look at planting a field of beans he plants with a check strip of my beans to see if he is correct. 

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

Couple more tidbits to add to the discussion, one of my boyhood heros was super corn grower Herman Warsaw. Now Herman smashed through the 300 bu/acre way back in 1975, there was no GMOs then, Herman did it year after year by being a superior farmer. GMO seed got on the scene in about 1998,what was accomplished? Well mediocre farmers became "good enough farmers" who's success was only limited by their skills to rent more land.

But just think about 3 decades ago Herman Warsaw would roll out of bed and raise +300 bushel corn (he even had a Massey combine, Ken Smiley Wink. )What are we now with our GMOs, 160 national average?

All Roundup corn and beans did is make Pigeon grass and Quack grass extinct since 1998. But as a trade off our Pig weed morphed into Waterhemp that is a bugger to control. Right now Roundup is basically a "inert ingredient" that's a carrier for the rest of the cochtail of chemicals that we have to spray, many of them 30 year old chemistry.

For the first time in 10 years, next year I'm planting some conventional corn $180/bag no one can give me a good reason that I shouldn't, spray Corvus and Callisto for cleanup. I would've sooner but the hybrids weren't available. Wyfells had 2 or 3 available last year, this year they have 11 available and in my maturity. I'll bet you ask a seedsman and he will admit that conventional is the fastest growing segment of their market.
jput
Senior Contributor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

I've read up on Warsaw,  and the other yield greats.

 

Herman would plant a certain hybrid in his high yield plot,  capable of kick butt yields but the standability of that particular hybrid was awful.   It was bred to yield,  but standabilty suffered as a result.  So he'd harvest that hybrid when it was very wet,  make that record yield,  but I wonder how it fared factoring in the drying costs?

Herman spread corn cobs used in bedding hogs, so his slow release fertilizer program was decaying hog pee-poop soaked cobs.   He also cultivated,  which aerated the soil and promoted the cob and other organic matter decay throughout the season.  Let's keep in mind that most farmers in Warsaw's era,  also moldboard plowed,   so going back to the "good ol' days" of conventional hybrids should also factor in planting in warm,  exposed,  no previous crop residue soils.

 

That is not to say,  there aren't great conventional hybrids today.   Remember that all bio-tech hybrids spend their first years in research and development as conventionals.   The traits are added in later in the program.  So genetically,  conventionals are just as good as their biotech relatives.   They're available,  you just have to look for them,  usually by bypassing Pioneer,  Monsanto, Syngenta and Dow company owned seed companies.   Of course,  then you don't get that silly cap the rest of the farmers wear.

 

The biggest limiting factor in the national average is adverse weather.   This year is a prime example,  cold wet weather early delayed planting,  heat units were limited in much of the Corn Belt, and then it turned dry.    In defense of the modern hybrids,  they're far superior in handling drought than what we had 3 decades ago.

 

 

Husker-J
Senior Contributor

Re: A visit with Monsanto's Dr. Fraley

Out here, it is primarily small farmers that go organic.   They have the time to go across their fields 4-5 times a year, to keep weeds in check, which is what it seems to take.  That plus proper rotations.