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Veteran Advisor

Re: It seems to me

Some interesting reading.  Shows the difference between corn produced ethanol and biomass ethanol.  Also shows the products obtained from each process.  There is research going on to perfect other means of obtaining ethanol.

 

http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/40742.pdf

 

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/4291

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/21/us-ethanol-brazil-usa-idUSTRE4AK5BN20081121

Re: It seems to me

Thus far celulosic ethanol has been a bust. Can't say that the killer tech isn't coming but it hasn't yet- despite innumerable breathless press releases.

 

An excellent example of how you don't legislate innovation.  Might as well have legislated that Klingons land and give us dilithiium crystals.

 

That was the holy grail of the whole ethanol thing- that, yeah, corn ethanol isn't so great but it is just a bridge to the next generation of biofuels.

 

Biofuels are not hard- corn works great in a corn furnace and has some net energy but it doesn't help much of anybody- other than the folks lobbying for it- after running it through a Rube Goldberg machine.

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Senior Advisor

Re: It seems to me

Ethanol adds value to a raw product. From 1 bushel of corn you can get nearly 3 gallons of ethanol and 18 lbs/high protein livestock feed. It turns sunlight into useable energy. It is a domestic supply. It provides 1,000s of US jobs producing a product that is needed. Not like the government stimulus jobs where one guy digs the hole and the next comes along and fills it in.

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Advisor

Sam..did you see...

...that a couple of heads finally rolled over Fast and Furious?  

 

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/two_top_officials_resign_over_atfs_operation_fast_...

 

Well...demoted anyway,

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Senior Contributor

Bio-diesel versus Ethanol?

  Was at a meeting earlier this evening and that question was asked of me(along with the reason for Bio-diesel's spotlight/demise), and I had no response because I honestly didn't know. But I'm curious to see how the two compare.

  I also thought that by now some positive increases or moves would have been achieved in Ethanol but attribute that not happening because of those mandates. I don't think there's much of an incentive when the mandates act as a back-stop.

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Advisor

Bears repeating

 "I don't think there's much of an incentive when the mandates act as a back-stop."

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Senior Advisor

Re: Bio-diesel versus Ethanol?

Bio-diesel is a loser from the get go, just not enough oil in soybeans. The ethanol mandate at the present is meaningless as we are over producing the mandate and running exports. The mandate needs to be eliminated so the market can decide which is more important, food or fuel.

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Advisor

Re: Sam..did you see...

I guess you could claim that is heads rolling. Being that the atf Is part of the doj shouldn't an outside investigation take place.
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Senior Advisor

Re: Bio-diesel versus Ethanol?

Are you suggesting that ethanol exports are a bad thing? What about meat exports,beef,pork and poultry? The american corn farmer has found an new market for their corn, ethanol. And you would like to kill it because the feed grains cost you more. Well produce less or expand your own market so that your prices are too high.

 

Some would claim that government benefitted feeders with their low priced grain policy. Insurance products which keep unproductive land under crop. CRP acres which should be available for grazing greatly enlarging the nations cow herds.

 

The market is deciding which is more important food or fuel. Ethenol subsidies that go to oil companies as a blenders credit. That is why we have $7 corn but I would be just as happy to sell it to a hog or chicken producer if they were competitive.

 

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Senior Advisor

Re: It seems to me

Now what stimulus job paid one guy to dig a hole and another guy to fill it in. You are so **bleep** dishonest and you pass that kind of crap off as truth.

 

They build roads and streets in Oklahoma. Rebuilding infrastructure that will last for decades and should have been done years ago. I hope they come with another one only three times as big and forget all the darn taxcuts that don't encourage anyone to create a job.