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Senior Advisor

Re: Bio-diesel versus Ethanol?

Ethanol exports are a good thing. The mandate is the bad thing. Your right about the digging thing, now they hand it out just because.

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Re: Bio-diesel versus Ethanol?

If you want to argue that corn ethanol is a rural development and ag subsidy project, fine.

 

It can also be argued that it is an environmental initiative via fuel reformulation.

 

But what it isn't is an energy program. I suppose you could make an argument for reduction of imported oil but part of that is just switching to imported nitrogen (basically just an energy form) or you could argue that the NG that is used is domestic, which is true, but it would be more efficient to just turn the gas into synfuel without the Rube Goldberg machine (or actually burn it in the city truck fleets which would probably yield more benefit than oxygenating fuel for the entire fleet.)

 

What I've always said about corn ethanol is that it is sort of like the Iraq War- it is a little bit about this, a little bit about that, in the end don't know what it was about but we got it.

 

Again, I'd say stick to the environmental argument which is the only one that really holds water.

 

Not that any argument needs to make sense if people have an interest in promoting something.

 

 

 

 

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Senior Advisor

Re: Bio-diesel versus Ethanol?

The value of the imported N is very miniscule compared to the value of the ethanol it produces. Remove ethanol from the market and see what happens to the price of gasoline.

 

You are right about NG. It should be burned for transportation fuel, it should NEVER be used to generate electricity, we have coal for that.

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Re: Bio-diesel versus Ethanol?

Depending on whether the DGs need to be dried or not, the N is the biggest energy input and not insignificant at all.

 

You can tax the consumer with higher food prices then tell him that he's getting a break at the pump. It'll work or like everything else with a slight degree of complexity you can muddy the waters enough to maintain the stauts quo.

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Senior Contributor

Re: It seems to me

http://theiowarepublican.com/2011/stimulus-reality-check/

 

 Hey Kraft, how many jobs were created by the first stimulus in Iowa, check the link and find out. If you are honest you would be against another stimulus bill.

 

snip; Millions of dollars of taxpayer money were spent in Iowa as a result of the the stimulus bill, and Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) and Rep. Bruce Braley (D-IA) have recently declared that we need an additional “booster shot” to create jobs.  Yet a recent analysis of government statistics by The Iowa Republican (TIR) reveal that few, if any, jobs were created as a result of the stimulus package.

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Re: It seems to me

Iowa is already the recipient of a massive public stimulus via ethanol policy.

 

And growing corn to burn it and yield no net energy (on the last marginal acre) isn't like digging a hole and filling it back in?

 

Must not be among Shelly's Real Americans.

 

Just is for other folks.

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Advisor

Re: It seems to me

I thought it was fairly well known that the stimulus didn't produce many new jobs. But it's news to the Iowa GOP leadership, I see. One area where it got used was in state and local governments to retain workers to get planned work done. But they've cut alot of people around the nation. Government payrolls, particularly cities and counties, are way, way down in most places.

 

It woud have to have been considerably bigger before many new jobs were created. That's what those guys are arguing for I think.

 

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Senior Contributor

Re: It seems to me


@bruce MN wrote:

I thought it was fairly well known that the stimulus didn't produce many new jobs. But it's news to the Iowa GOP leadership, I see. One area where it got used was in state and local governments to retain workers to get planned work done. But they've cut alot of people around the nation. Government payrolls, particularly cities and counties, are way, way down in most places.

 

It woud have to have been considerably bigger before many new jobs were created. That's what those guys are arguing for I think.

 


The stimulus was sold to us because Obama said it would create jobs or at least save jobs. It did neither in Iowa. Bigger would have had the same result. Nice try.

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Senior Advisor

Re: It seems to me


@bruce MN wrote:

I thought it was fairly well known that the stimulus didn't produce many new jobs. But it's news to the Iowa GOP leadership, I see. One area where it got used was in state and local governments to retain workers to get planned work done. But they've cut alot of people around the nation. Government payrolls, particularly cities and counties, are way, way down in most places.

 

It woud have to have been considerably bigger before many new jobs were created. That's what those guys are arguing for I think.

 


Guess you want to have another debt ceiling debate before the 12 election.

Senior Advisor

Re: It seems to me

Nox, what do you think the cost of gasoline would be if we suddenly reduced our supply by 12%? Transportation cost is one of the leading cost of food. So are the energy cost of making food products. Ethanol has helped keep those cost down. Ethanol fills a need and also adds to economic activities, unlike for example adding 100,000 new police officers , TSA agents, or school administrators.

 

The thing to do with ethanol is end all subsidies and mandates. The same for the oil industries. Let the market decide which energy supply is the most economical.