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Senior Contributor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

Tom, I can name dozens of Repubs I have not defended or have been critical of.  You how ever seem to be like Don in that you will defend every Dem no matter how serious the charges and how strong the evidence. So feel free to expose corrupt Repubs as I want nothing more then to have all corrupt politicans exposed no matter what their party affiliation.


I have always been registered an Independent but have always been open to the fact that lean more to the right and vote about 80/20 for Repubs over Dems.  That is because on many of the major issues Repubs views more closely resembled my views.  However in the past few years I would have say that I have been moving towards the center of the road on many issues. 


You again seem to again want to try and blame all Blago's legal problems on evil Repubs.    I don't doubt for a minute that some Repubs may have an ax to grind with Blago or would like to see him gone but as with the Clintons that does not explain away all the dirty things they have done and is simply the old trick of trying to blame the messenger in an attempt to deflect attention away from the crimes committed. 


"Who cares whether it was one person or three, that is the way the jury works."   You can bet Blago's new defense team cares if there was just one juror believing he was innocent on a particular charge or 10 of them.  



Bottom line - after listening to the tapes and reading the reports on the evidence do you think Blago is innocent of all charges? 



Veteran Advisor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

  You are a republican, albeit one of the rational ones. That's your choice, and you have that right also, and whether or not you are registered as one, more than likely has to be because you don't want to be pestered a lot before every election and when they need more money.

  Like I said before, the whole thing started during Blago's first election campaign. If you break down paving contracts by district throughout IL., you quickly learn the relationship between political contributions and contract awards. Add in the "fundraisers" that are paid for by the same contractors, and it's not a coincidence. Hell, one paving contractor has his office and equipment yard right next to the I-280 bypass for easy machine mobility. Go into Chicago on I-90, and you'll see another one. The agenda of Governor Ryan was to rebuild and upgrade the roads, and you can match his contributions to the contractors that were awarded contracts. It's pretty funny that the "investigation" conveniently started at Blago's contributors and didn't pay any attention to Ryan's. Another example is the airport expansion project that Hastert was pushing, that would have rewarded him as his cronies. When he "retired" that useless idea ended.

  How about the Chicago Speedway? It was slated to be put outside a little town on the East side of the Quad Cities, and they already had the press conferences at the QC Airport with some big name driver, and they even had a billboard at the corn field shaped like a race car on I-88, and the mayor goes on vacation and the whole deal was off. It was even proposed to be maybe put in the Davenport area along I-80, and that fell through too along with Rockford. But look at where it ended up.

  Then there is Governor Ryan, who is  sitting in prison for selling drivers licenses. That didn't start or end with him, he was just the one to take all the blame and convictions for it. That had been going on for a few years, along with handing out DMV jobs to political supporters, as that was what I was referring to in an earlier post. The drunken punk that made the "job offer" to me said it while the Asst State's Atty for the county was there, as he was my golfing partner and the State's Atty and another lawyer made up our foursome. I looked at the Asst SA and said "wasn't that illegal?", and he just laughed and said "DUH". That was 1994.

  Ah yes, the "transcripts. I've read every bit of info about this at the Chicago FBI website and numerous places. It's funny that you imply that you have read all the info, when they won't release hardly any at all. There were over 2000 conversations recorded, and about 100-200 pages of it was released to the public and media. I have tried through places to get a transcript of the trial, and should be able to get one somewhere soon, because of the conviction. 

  Let me be clear about this so you don't ask me again and again, I think he was trying to exploit his power of appointment of the vacant seat, and was trying to get as many favors as possible, just as any politician would do, and has done. Selling the position requires something of monetary value to have changed hands, and that didn't happen. If it supposedly did, where is the money/something of monetary value for proof??????

Senior Contributor

Re: Blago vs Illinois


Where the heck did I ever say or even imply that I had read all the info???


"Selling the position requires something of monetary value to have changed hands, and that didn't happen. If it supposedly did, where is the money/something of monetary value for proof??????"


As I said earlier I don't believe money has to trade place for there to be a crime.  I'm no expert but recall the writer that tried to black mail David Lettermen was found guilty and no money ever changed hands in that case.


So it appears that once again you give a Dem the benefit of the doubt which something you never do with Repubs and in the process blame all Blago's legal problems on evil Repubs.  And you call me a Republican while you claim to be Independent???

Veteran Advisor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

  LOL, what, no more right wing websites????? The Illinois Policy Institute is a right wing "organization", that has former right wing politicians on their "board".........what a joke. Like I said before, if you had the slightest clue of IL. politics, this back and forth tripe would be a lot more fun. Every time I hear the term "Chicago-style politics", it usually comes from an idiot. Anybody from IL. that has a lick of sense knows that the "kickback system" originated with republicans, mainly from former Governor Lennie Small. On top of that, of the roughly one dozen former Governors of IL. that have been prosecuted or publicly known to be corrupt, 9 are republicans, and 3(including Blago) are democrats.

  Somehow "attempted extortion" and "selling a Senate seat" aren't the same, although you somehow want it to be to somehow justify what you are now saying.

  What's next, comparisons to Jeffrey Dahmer?????????


Senior Contributor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

Don't feel bad, my wife calls me an idiot once in while as well.   However I would suggest the idiot is the person who lives in Illinois but tries to claim all the corrupt politicians from that state are Republicans especially when that person claims to be an Independent.  It would be interesting to hear you try and explain how Richard Daley , Dan Rostenkowski and the other Dems listed amongst the most corrupt politicians in Illinois history were not corrupt but just all the victims of a vast right conspiracy.  I have no doubt your state has had its share of corrupt Repubs as well but find it sad and humorous at the same time that there are people like you who refuse to even entertain the idea that there could be corrupt politicians from their favorite political party.  I have to wonder if there are lots of people in your state who like you prefer to keep their heads stuck in the sand not wanting to acknowledge the corruption within their prefered party?   That sure would explain your state's problems with having more then its share of dirty politicians.  Like I tell Don, covering up the bad apples only helps lead to more of them.


I have no idea as to the political leanings of the Illinois Policy Institute.  I will check to see if the sites I go for info are full of right or left leaning political ads or if all their subjects listed all slant one way but did not see anything so obvious when I visited that site after coming across it while doing a Google search of corupt Illinois politicians. 

Veteran Advisor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

  LOL, I feel for your wife, as I can relate to her. Here's a link to the Illinois Policy Institute, and the "about us" page from the website.

  If you notice there is a person that is the COO for the Sam Adams Alliance too, or what is known as teabagger central.

  The funny part of all this is that I learned 98% of this in high school and college. But, here's ANOTHER example of republican corruption for ya, because you seem to deny it. Schemin' Stratton, the IL. Governor that took corruption and kickbacks to a whole new level, was carried to his grave by none other than Big Jim Thompson(pay up or get prosecuted), Jim Edgar(Thompson's henchman and the person who started the license scam and political payoff jobs), and yes old George Ryan( who carried on the scams, but went to prison for it). That's quite a run of corruption and scumbag politicians. It's too bad that they didn't fall in the grave with him.

  Hate union corruption?? Which one of those former IL. Governors was appointed to oversee an investigation into union/mob corruption in New York, only to have the corruption not only continue, but get worse?? But, he did his loyal partisan part to keep the investigation from getting too close to Rudy Giuliani and his ties to it, as was planned. Mr. 911 the "mob fighter" couldn't have known relationships to mobsters on his resume, because that doesn't look good in a presidential campaign.

  So for an "independent" like yourself that says he wants to root out corrupt politicians of either side of the aisle, you're getting pretty defensive about me pointing out the long list of known republican ones.

Senior Advisor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

I don't cover up bad apples. I do refuse to convict before the trial. That is what you want to do. And undoubtedly, when you come across a repub that may hve bent the rules, you must always compare him to a dem who might have been worse. Or at least you assume he has.


Plus you use past allegations as rock solid proof  the dem has done evil. Amazing that you are unabashedly willing to assume a dem is guilty before he is tried and are equally willing to find him guilty after the jury has been hung or the dem has been found innocent or if the charges have been dropped.


Yet you get all out of sorts because I am not your personal ditto head.


Evidently, you think your court room of personal public opinion is enough to convict. Admittedly their are some repubs I feel the same way about. However, I would just like to see them come tom trial. Bush , Cheney, Alberto Gonzales, Rumsfeld, Condolezza Rice and even Colin Powell should be questioned under oath..


And most interesting of all is that you choose to Chide Don Kraft or Tom  for minor disagreement while you remain completely silent to the readical righties on here. I mean completely silent while the BS splatters on everyone around here. Yep Dag is silent. Nothing there he wants to challenge.





Senior Contributor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

And your supreme hero Bill Clinton lied under oath in front of a Federal Grand Jury while he was President of the US. He also took an oath to uphold the laws in this country. But, you will defend that man till the day you die. He was guilty but just got a slap on the hand. Go figure.

Senior Contributor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

Try being honest for change Tom.  First you say "It's funny that you imply that you have read all the info, when they won't release hardly any at all."   Now you say  "So for an "independent" like yourself that says he wants to root out corrupt politicians of either side of the aisle, you're getting pretty defensive about me pointing out the long list of known republican ones."


Please point out where I ever said I have read all the info or where I get defensive when you or anyone points out corrupt Repub politicians?  In fact I have repeatedly said there are far smarter and better read people on this site then I which far different from some I know who post on here.   I have also posted repeatedly about corrupt Repubs.  The fact is it is you and Don that can be counted on like clock work to defend every Dem that has been reported on in the news for corrupt activities.  I have many family members and friends that are Democrats but none of them will blindly defend the bad apples in their party like the two of you.  Your comment Tom about the corrupt politicians in your state all being Repubs speaks for itself. 


I realize Tom you have not been posting here as long as some others so I will give you a few examples of where I have been critical of Repubs.


I was the first here to mention the corruption of Repub. Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska.


I have spoke before about the corruption of Repub. Congressman Duke Cunningham.


I complained about Repub. Tom Dorr getting a high position with the USDA after cheating on the farm program so as to receive higher farm payments then he should have.  


I complained about one of my favorite Repubs Senator Chuck Grassley for supporting Tom Dorr to become Under Secretary for Rural Development in the USDA.


I complained about Repub. Iowa Governor Branstad's son getting what I believed to be preferential treatment after being involved in a car accident that resulted in the deaths of two people.


I complained about Repub. Iowa Governor Branstad pulling strings to get his farming brother's county declared a disaster area one year when the county was no where near effected by the bad weather as other countys.


I advocated that Repub. president Bush fire Rumsfield after it was shown he had done a very poor job of planning for Iraq's security after the initial invasion and also complained how the Bush administration did a very poor job of securing Iraq's borders to help keep insurgents and weapons from entering the country.


I have blamed Repub presidents as well as Congressmen for not making sure our borders are more secure.


I complained about Bush landing on an aircraft carrier for his mission accomplished speech as being PR stunt.


Those are just a few examples off the top of my head.  Be interesting to see a list from Independent Tom where he has criticized any Dems. 

Veteran Advisor

Re: Blago vs Illinois

  LOL, at least you didn't dig up ole Teddy Kennedy again, they finally got the grass to grow on his grave from the last time that you dug him up.

  You remind me of your fellow republicans that I heard utter the phrase "it wasn't THAT(the various forms of republican corruption) bad, but it's better than having a democrat in there".

  So, let's recap. I show you the ongoing republican corruption backed up by factual history, that occurred over 60% of my life, and you think I'm "just bein' a political hack". It got so bad the republican majority SCOTUS eventually put a stop to some of it. What was that? The office that was created by a republican Governor called the Governor's Office of Personnel, or the G.O.P., to hire republicans only for state jobs. The last of that gang was a sitting Governor, and his Atty Gen. was Blago's opponent when he originally ran for Governor, and so the "charges" weren't really a surprise, it was a given.

  Now let's look at those rural counties, villages, and towns, along with the school boards that have been about 75% or more republican dominated for the same amount of time of my life, with the ME, ME, ME mentality. The towns with 3 digits in their population are ghost towns(that the right wingers want to turn into the WILD WEST), so much that they don't even bother to change the population signs, and if there is a gas station there that isn't credit and debit card only(no employees), that's the biggest employer. But hey, they also have a video store in the back............if you still have a VCR for the VHS tapes. What's the reason nobody returns to those areas??? Who wants to look forward to a life of food stamps and subsidized utilities where a "good year" is one where your annual income goes over HALF of the national median annual income. They have to merge schools to get enough people for a football team too, for what schools that are still left that haven't been starved out of existence.

  So, when a decent democrat comes along like when Blago did, it's no wonder why myself everybody else voted for him. But, according to you right wingers, that was stupid, and we were just being politically ideological.