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hardnox
Advisor

Canuck, Don

As you guys serve as our resident anti-religionists (Gough having been excommunicated).

 

I've been thinking about religious thought as it pertains to some of the matters that we love to argue about here.  I'm probably more closely aligned with you than you might thing as I'm an anti-religious religious person- my interest in theology is largely based on the desire to spot bad theology, which in my view is ubiquitous.

 

We'll start with the case of the late Justice Scalia who was religiously speaking, a very conservative Catholic- a critic of the Vatican II reforms. Would it not stand to reason that if a person really has faith in the Vatican that he would reflexively use his intellect to defend authority and hierarchy?

 

We'll move on to the Bundy bunch, the core of whom are conservative Mormons. I'm sure that you guys believe that all religions are made up but the traditional ones are at least venerable. Mormonism is a totally made up deal- created by a flim-flam man who claimed that he'd received magic golden plates (that only he could read) from the archangel Moroni (if I was making up a religion I don't think I'd call him Moron-i but maybe Joe had a sense of humor). Anyway, the "constitution" that these guys were carrying is actually an "annotated" version that gives the conservative Mormon interpretation. It isn't known whether the conservative Mormon "scholar" who produced it was visited by Moroni or not.  But anyway, important enough to get imprisoned or killed over, I guess.

 

Speaking of annotation, we get the truly serious matter that threatens the future of our Republic. That is the slavish devotion to the interests of the Israeli Likud that has gotten us into a huge mess over the last 15 years. Key to that support is the Christian Zionist interpretation of Christian scripture, which, more than anything, emanates from the work of another convicted swindler- Cyrus Scofield.  Under the patronage of Lord Rothschild, the scalalwag Scofield produced an "annotated" version of the Bible. By annotation I mean that it shows the actual scriptural translation, but then has footnotes to the effect of "that's not really Argle Bargle (to use Justice Scalia's term) but what it means is that Jesus will be displeased if you don't support a Jewish return to Israel so that Jesus can return."  The Bible really doesn't say anything of the sort but good luck convincing anyone who's fallen under the spell of a Christian Zio preacher.

 

I'll let someone who is more knowledgable work the Islamic angle on this, which I'm sure is rich.

 

But anyway, yes, you are right. Religion is can be very dangerous.

 

BTW, some argle-barglery from our 43rd Prez-

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush

30 Replies
hardnox
Advisor

Re: Canuck, Don

Notably excluded, other than by inference, the Israel Firsters and dual nationals who were at the heart of the conspiracy to draw the US into conflict in the ME.

 

Not sure if that is a matter of religion or tribalism, or whether there's a difference.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Canuck, Don

There is a reason that the offical position of religion in the former Soviet Union and other communist countries is atheism (there are needed exceptions in Latin American countries) but basically you can not have a totalitarian system and Christianity existing together, they are diameterically opposed.

 

If you carry your liberalism to it`s logical conclusion, you will have to be an atheist, Canuck is there and Don/Bernie Sanders is just about there.  They see all the "evangelical voters" come out for Ted Cruz and others...now if all these people could be convinced that "there is nothing to their beliefs" then that would usher in the age of aquarius..one race, one world, everyone riding the same bicycle to their same dingy apartment all getting paid the same paycheck regardless of their job, eating the same Soylent Green....sounds like paradise doesn`t it?  🙂

 

As long as there are Christians, that liberal utopia will never come to fruition, so the radicals like Gough, would heckle and do anything to disminish religion, primarily the Christian religion being as that is the one true religion..all the rest will easily fold, Muslims are temporarily tolerated as they are a tool to an end, having in common their hatred of Christianity.

 

The M.E. troubles are about oil, tiny Israel is nothing but an excuse.  The Gadafis and Sadams and now Assads didn`t want to go along with the US petro dollar and that is a no no to the new world order...who do those towelheads think they are, threatening the US petro dollar??  pssst they had rape rooms, they were really really baaaaad 

 

The trouble with many in the Christian religion is they don`t understand the Bible, they don`t understand that there were people before Adam and that Cain and Abel were twins with different fathers.  Adam was Abel`s dad and satan was Cain`s dad..twins with different fathers, that`s right.  Adam`s seed was pure and begot Jesus, those in that Adamic line are "Israel" and the 10 lost tribes made up Europe and settled America  ..JerUSAlem, if you will.  Our brothers Juda are in Israel and are surrounded by nations that hate them.

hardnox
Advisor

Re: Canuck, Don

The constitution guarantees the right to follow the religion of your choice, or none at all.

 

Religion will survive the turning, but there is a good reason why the younger generation tends to not be very religious on average- because many of the world's biggest azzwipes hide behind it.

 

They'll figure things out but they are right that no religion is better than following for, instance the, Paleface Machinegun, childbuggery or planet destroying variants.

hardnox
Advisor

Re: Canuck, Don

Forgive me if I can't help but see in Justice Scalia's enthusiasm for torture something of him as a creature of an institution that was once one of history's foremost, and creative, practitioners of it.

 

He did have what I'd regard as a decent record on 4th Amendment (search and siezure) cases, paricularly as it relates to police procedures. But you can hardly say that the Roberts court has been at all activist in looking to find potential landmark privacy cases in the way they were with Citizens United.

 

On 2nd Amendment matters, guns are not in any way a means of revolt for a population that has no guarantee of a right to privacy- unless you happen to think that revolutions happen spontaneously. Widespread gun ownership in a population that doesn't have a right to privacy and assembly is just a means to protect social order and the status quo.

 

 

ihtractortherap
Senior Contributor

Re: Canuck, Don

Prolly should start reading the King James Version. Just because of a few scalawags doesn't mean God and Jesus dont exist
BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Canuck, Don

We have to define "torture" some would say the death penalty is torture or waterboarding or forced to listen to Slim Whitman records...orr down the "Hannibal Lector" path.   And under what circumstances, if it`s like in the old debtor prisons where they would hang by their wrists for not paying their taxes. 

 

I think if a dirty bomb was planted in NYC that will go off in 1 hour, most of us would excuse whatever Jack Bauer and a cordless DeWalt would have to do to locate it.

 

The Founding Fathers and 8th amendment, didn`t want their citizens to live under the same tyranny as the British subjected them to.  The Founding Fathers had the French and Indian Wars and that British brutality somewhat in their minds when the Constitution was in utero.   But at the time the Constitution was drafted, there was not the terrorism problem and the ability for evil people to blow up an entire city.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/12/politics/scalia-on-torture-death-penalty/index.html  

 

With the 2nd amendment, it`s personal protection against a evil person that would kick in your door or attack a woman in a parking garage and just the probablity that a citizen is potentially armed makes them a hard target.  Like Samuel Colt made the "equalizer", with a gun a 105 lb woman has a chance against a 300lb heroin addict. 

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Canuck, Don

That is fine that you believe that way.  Where we have a problem is when you support a political system that fines a Christian bakery out of business for not baking a certain cake.  Electing politicians that want to do away with inheritances, and have 90% income tax brackets and drag in illegal aliens and put them on the taxpayer funded dole.  You go off on these rants about how you don`t want Christians telling you what to do...well stop and listen......no one is telling you what to do or what to believe, I`m sorry but no one cares, we have enough keeping our own houses in order.

 

You would not know we exist, we`d be quiet as a church mouse if your political tribe wasn`t constantly trying to destroy us.

bruce MN
Advisor

Re: Canuck, Don

I don't believe that you are actually serious in your conclusion.  It's a schtick....a ruse, to self-rationalize the crazy hybrid echo pot you find yourself stewed in to.  

 

It's not really you and who your people are, or what formed them since the first of them found themselves here.

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: Canuck, Don

Hey Nox, saw this last night but did not take time to reply so here are a few thoughts.

 

First I am not 'anti-religionist' buut rather pro rational thinking.

 

Not particularly familiar with your late justice, his thoughts, actions etc.

 

As for the Mormons beliefsdo you not think the christian beliefs are just as ridiculous and with no more proof of being correct?

The one difference is time and therefore the clouding of just how christianity took hold.

 

If you look back in history christainty really got going when the Roman empire embraced it to keep the population under their control making christianity 'belief' mandatory punishable by death.

That was quite an incentive to'just believe' and ofcourse took many who did not out of the population and with them any counter ideas.

 

Just believing teachings which canbe interpreted inmany ways depending on who is in power leads to a halt on reasoning and critical thought, a stagnation on new ideas, thoughts and findings leading to new knowledge.

this has been show to happen throughout mankinds history in many societies and under the influence of different religions.

When the relatively modern process of using the scientific process to learn and prove things to be correct it takes out the stagnation of beliefs that are cast in stone and often WRONG.

 

Yes there are many risks to having believers in control especially control of the machines of war today when a wrong button push could be the end of civilization for many years.