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Samnospam
Advisor

Re: great example

Quite frankly, its a poor comparison. no one makes anyone patronize any NFL team. No one holds a gun on you. Some facilities are supported with sales taxes, but those can be avoided. The idea that socialism can be bought into by every one is a cousin to unicorns.
Papa Wheelie
Senior Contributor

Re: great example

The idea any one -ism has all the answers is a cousin to the unicorns as well. IMHO it is a good comparison because it shows how it only works when all are involved voluntarily.

 

And one thing we didn't cover which is important to the equation, 99% of the NFL teams are tax-payer supported in their efforts. And 80% of these taxpayers will never see the inside of "their" stadium. In the Paris of the Plains, 70% of the ticket holders do not pay any of the taxes to support the entertainment they enjoy as they live across the state line.

The redo of Arrowhead was paid for by issuing bonds which the taxpayers will repay. I doubt there is enough revenue returned to the city, county and state to cover what was paid out. 

 

Then we add on the $$$ a consumer pays on products which are "sponsors" of the NFL or advertise during games.

 

Lots of unwilling participants to this socialism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

bruce MN
Advisor

Re: great example

The situation up here is getting very interesting.  The public and many of it's representatives simply do not want taxpayer involvement in a new stadium for the Vikings.  We just did two of them, one farily well and prudently with very significant participation by the team owner and a corporate partner(Target Field-Twins) and the other haphazardly and incredibly expensive (for what we wound up with) in teh new U of M football facility.

 

Now the public is up to here and it's (Vikings) the most popular franchise.  People want the facility, but don't want to pay for it for the beneifit of a billionaire carpetbagger owner and elected officials seem to be coming to the conclusion that it's a mountain that they aren't willing to die on.  It's all worth watching.  Our Governor is doing a he!! of a job of gauging and working the issue.  The Mpls. City Council is key and they aren't bending over.

 

While none of the pro legues would ever go along with one more franchise being publcly owned, the Packers are still the good model.  You could sell enough $100-1000 shares in the Vikings over a weekend to buy out the team and get going on a building.  But the NFL and the rest of the ownership won't hear a world of it.  It would be shooting a cash cow.

 

I'm still plugging for waiting a year or two and then putting thousands to work for two hots and a cot, building the stadium as a WPA project.

Papa Wheelie
Senior Contributor

Re: great example

It is interesting to note the people of Los Angeles don't want an NFL team but the gubermint is all in on bringing a team to town.

 

They are working with AEG i.e. The Great Satan in bringing a team to town.

 

AEG came into the Paris of the Plains when the Mare of KC decided the city needed a new arena. No NBA or NHL franchise or one on the horizon. But AEF said, build it and we will find a team for you.

 

Of course the grifter AEG hitched it's wagon to here was promptly arrested and convicted on fraud charges.

 

The AEG dropped the ball here and went to "save" LA.

 

The city is hemoraging money because they think if it's paved it will pay. Yet a $10-million dollar payment by the city to Cordish because the development didn't bring in projected revenues. It was an entertainment district to give vacationers and conventioners a place to party and get a taste of the city. 'Cept there was not one KC O&O business in the district. And venues dropped and continue to drop like flies. One local business was enticed to participate and it soon went bankrupt.

 

And now the city is going to have to lay off firefighters/EMTs, police and others because the finances are as messed up as a soup sandwich.

 

But the city will still voluntarily give $2,000,000-a-year to the baseball and football teams.

 

The grifters and leaches win again.

 

Of course across the state line in Kansasakistan, the governer is planning to operate the state on revenue from the new, state-owned casinos.

 

In times like this even good, decent men are wont to raise the black flag and begin slitting throats (H L Mencken)

bruce MN
Advisor

Re: great example

I counted up and it's been 13 big league baseball parks that I've been in and Kauffman is the run away favorite.  Don't know much about how those parks got out there outside of town but was there the promise of hotel-motel development coing down like rain when the Arrowhed-Kauffman complex was being proposed?  We stay with relatives when we go to Royals games and they know the back way out there. Even have taken some gravel to not so very far from the park.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Papa Wheelie
Senior Contributor

Re: great example

I do remember how much the stadiums were going to make the area better. But it is still pretty much the same now as when it was being built.

 

But the area only has a few hotels, the rest is bleak. The majority of motels in the area are transient in nature.

 

Next time you travel here for a ball game let me know, if it is mid-week take in a semi-Rainmakers show.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: great example

The idea any one -ism has all the answers is a cousin to the unicorns as well.

 

I disagree in this context, any ism that is completely voluntary in its membership, has the right answers for that membership.  When force is introduced the ism, by my definition, becomes a failure.

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: great example

And wouldn't public support of a corporate monopoly really be fascism, not socialism.
Papa Wheelie
Senior Contributor

Re: great example

You are correct but I was meaning to apply to the whole rather than the group.

 

 

Papa Wheelie
Senior Contributor

Re: great example

Not sure, the definition of facism is the government & industry working in lock-step.

 

In facism it is the state and businesses who matter rather than the citizens.

 

When you throw in the consumer it might be consumerism? That seems to be the catch phrase of today.

 

I think it was Sophicles who said while the people yearn for freedom from oppression when they gain it they then cry out for a (benevolent) dictator.

 

Getting people to work against their own and a common good is something the politicos have masted.