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Senior Advisor

Re: BTW 3020 democrats got nothing out of the congressional shut down.


@kraft-t wrote:

Just to clarify the matter, everything the democrats supposedly gained out of this exchange, they already had before the political shoot out began. They gained nothing , they kept what they had. Thus the whole exchange was a fruitless exercise for everybody.

 

You made the common mistake of thinking you could exact concessions by threat or intimidation. You failed but dems did not win anything. They merely retained what they had.


You call a trillion in new debt nothing?

Senior Advisor

Re: Congratulations to the liberals

BA it will all be blamed on them anyway. Their unending support for the evil insurance companies is the only reason we can't have single payer. And if they fight back they will be known as teahadist. There is nothing or no one who will get between the people and their free stuff, all to be financed by the rich. Who are the rich you ask, that will be determined by the NSA and IRS. Hint: it ain't JP Morgan.

Advisor

Re: Congratulations to the liberals

Kind of ironic that with 2/3 control of the legislative process they got what they wanted, but they claim that when they had 3/3 control,  they didn't get what they wanted.   Me thinks the dumb suckers believe that eventually their lords will give them socialism,  but they'll get fascism at every turn and never be the wiser.  Same as it ever was.

different ways to go

That trajectory wouldn't have budged under a McCain or Romney/Republican congress regime, there would have just been some internal shifting between revenue and expenditures (and provided some sense of social justice among the faithful, thus marginally sufficient).

 

Probably would have continued on the same course had a coalition to balance the budget emerged as it is almost certainly impossible to cut expenditures faster than revenues would drop. Good news I guess is that you send the government into a death spiral (and thus save the Constitution?).

 

The only narrow window that I see out of it is to put people to work and risk inflation, a slightly better chance versus the liquidationist option which I give about a 0% probability for anything approaching a civil society and a functioning constitutional democracy to survive.

 

But that would involve a government, thus is off the table for a not insignificant faction.

 

As far as the social engineering aspects of conservative objections about the social safety net, I tend to agree that there are deeply corrosive effects from having too many people on the dole for too long. I think it would be a very good thing to pare it back continuously while simultaneously intervening to push wage levels up and increase employment. Although I'd point out that there aren't big budgetary gains to be had there, it is about the social implications.

 

Of course there is nothing in any of this other than fodder for easy refutation with facts that every white guy who's got a dish, a radio or goes to the coffee shop knows.

 

PS. And, I can't find any place to spend money other than a massive green energy program and key infrastructure (ideally avoiding a compounding of the sort of mistakes in subsidizing sprawl that helped get us into this mess).

 

Having implied a decent but not fully inclusive list of interests whose short term prospects might be hampered by such actions, even if their long term prospects are nil, I'm not too optimistic. 

 

Thinking through it leads me to the conclusion that moving up  from a very modest prepper level 1 is probably warranted.

 

 

Veteran Advisor

Re: Congratulations to the liberals

Don't be so happy 00! It isn't the end of the world.
Veteran Advisor

Re: BTW 3020 democrats got nothing out of the congressional shut down.

You would rather have the country default on the debt?
Senior Advisor

Re: BTW 3020 democrats got nothing out of the congressional shut down.

The trillion in new debt is your victory as much as mine. You act like a debt increase is a gift from you to us. Raising the debt limit is not raising spending. Its paying for previous spending already voted for in the houses of congress..

 

We should be grateful because you were forced to do the right thing? What bizzare logic.

Senior Advisor

Re: BTW 3020 democrats got nothing out of the congressional shut down.


@kraft-t wrote:

The trillion in new debt is your victory as much as mine. You act like a debt increase is a gift from you to us. Raising the debt limit is not raising spending. Its paying for previous spending already voted for in the houses of congress..

 

We should be grateful because you were forced to do the right thing? What bizzare logic.


Oh, you mean like congress and union exempt Obama care? Now they have the money to turn the panda cam back on.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Congratulations to the liberals

Let me use your logic. You come to me to buy a used car I have. I imply everything is good on it. You buy it and drive it around for awhile, then one day you and your family go out for a drive and the brake line breaks because of corrosion and your family is killed. Who is ultimately at fault?
Senior Contributor

Re:read above post slowly

then debate if you got the balls