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jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: For r3020

No

 

Hillary Clinton Isn’t Lying, The Fact-Checkers Are

 

PinocchioAs Donald Trump‘s terrible week winds to a close, the mainstream media has picked up a counter-narrative that says Trump did Hillary Clinton a yuge favor by overshadowing the “gaffe” she committed last weekend when she told Fox News’ Chris Wallace that FBI DirectorJames Comey backed up her version of the “Emailgate” story. Armed with a quartet of fictional marionette heads, Republicans fashioned the narrative into a talking point that even pro-Hillary media yappers didn’t bother to refute. The “fact-checkers” have spoken.

Except they’re wrong, every one of them, and they’re all, to some degree, lying in order to support their wrong conclusion. Mostly, they are committing a lie of omission, and so, for our more impatient readers, I will cut to the chase, on the condition that anyone who wants to argue the point with me on Twitter must read the whole thing first. The thing they are all leaving out of their various andsundry fact-checking exercises is this key exchange from FBI Director James Comey’s testimony before Congress:

“That would be a reasonable inference.”

All of the “Big Three” fact-checkers acknowledged the substance of the exchange to some degree, but either downplayed or outright lid about it. Politifact said Comey called the markings “insufficient,” when what he actually did was reply “no” when asked if any of the emails were “properly marked” as classified.

FactCheckDotOrg said Comey told that hearing that those emails “could have been missed by Clinton” when what he actually said was that a person who’s an “expert at what’s classified and what’s not classified” would reasonably infer “that those three documents were not classified.”

The Washington Post‘s fact-checker, the oft-quoted Glenn Kessler,made zero mention of the exchange, instead relying on this earlier exchange that Comey himself later contradicted:

The remark about Hillary Clinton’s lack of “sophistication” about classification got a lot of play in the media, but the fact is that he said just a few minutes later that an “expert at what’s classified and what’s not classified” would reasonably conclude the same thing that Hillary concluded.

So, the fact is that there were exactly zero emails sent or received by Hillary Clinton that were properly marked as classified. This is not some technicality, they were supposed to have big block letters at the top of every page, and they did not.

Now, it is fair for Hillary Clinton’s critics and opponents to point out that this explanation relies heavily on the question of what the definition of “classified” is, but for purposes of a “fact check,” matters of opinion are not supposed to enter into the equation. In order to evaluate Hillary’s truthfulness in a fair manner, it is necessary to evaluate what she said, what she meant when she said it, and what she believed when she said it. There’s a very good reason Comey wouldn’t say Hillary “lied” to the public, and told Congress that “I really don’t want to get in the business of trying to parse and judge her public statements,” because you have to ignore important context in order to conclude that this exchange proves that Hillary “lied”:

Gowdy: “Secretary Clinton said there was nothing marked classified on her emails either sent or received. Was that true?”

Comey: “That’s not true.”

Gowdy: “Secretary Clinton said, ‘I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email. There is no classified material.’ Was that true?”

Comey: “There was classified material emailed.”

That clip was mentioned in all three “Fact Checks,” but all three omitted the “portion markings” part of the exchange from their transcripts. Comey was referring to the classification of the subject matter, not the documents themselves, and mentioning that inconvenient fact would mean having to explain that when Hillary Clinton said she had never sent or received any material marked classified, she had every reason to believe she was telling the truth, because she was. None of them were properly marked.

All the rest of it, while legitimate to discuss as a philosophical matter, is irrelevant to a fact-checking exercise, because there are vast differences of opinion about the material that wasn’t marked classified, but which people alternately assert should and should not have been. The only factually verifiable claim at issue is whether any of it was marked, and none of it was.

On Friday afternoon, Hillary addressed the “controversy,” and given the week’s political currents, was wise not to make a federal case over it, but the media should hold these fact-checkers to a higher standard.

 

 

This is a case of seeing what you want to see, and hearing what you want to hear.

 

See, it doesn't matter that I presented this here.  All these people want to hear is "Lock her up!"  That's it.  Nothing else will do.  The brainwashing is complete, and short of sending these people into a deprograming couse, they will not admit to anything than what they think.  r3020's response to the little thing he had wrong yesterday, and won't admit it, tells the whole story.  I'm sorry - but you guys with the "lock her up" mentality really need to get over it.  You look like fools....

 

Jen

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: For r3020

I'll believe Comey. She knew what she was doing was illegal but did it any way. She knows she is above the law.

jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: For r3020

That's OK r3020. I've made my point. You just keep going through life with those blinders on. The Republicans need people like you - those who never question what the talking heads are doing. A good soldier for the cause.

I've done my part - now it's your turn to prove. Show me where Comey said the words, "Hillary lied". Should be pretty simple.

Not something inferred and spun. The exact words.

And I'm still waiting for the retraction at the top of this thread.

Jen
jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: For r3020

I'm still waiting for the exact words and the retraction.

 

Jen

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Are you a troll?

 
jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: Are you a troll?

No - just a citizen of the US that hates lies and spin that is so prevalent today.  

 

A few years ago, on the marketing site, we had a fellow come on trying to move the market, and saying that the Ebola Virus was able to be transferred without direct contact.  A lie, but, he got quite a few people to believe it because he "sounded so sure of what he was saying".

 

Well, down here in the Forum, we have some that are doing the same thing.  Lies - half truths, spin.  I hate politics.  I've said it many times.  And I'm sure as heck not a Democratic plant, like someone here seems to think I am.

 

What I saw down here, was a group of people that were bashing Secretary Clinton, and much of what I saw was wrong.  I thought I would try and do something about it, by making people prove their statements or off setting the spin with spin of my own - to help naturalize the issue.  

 

I'll say it again - I don't consider myself a Democrat or a Republican, or a Greenie or an Independent - "NONE OF THE ABOVE".

 

I have done my research.  Secretary Clinton may not be perfect, but she's a far better bet than Trump.  Trump will simply continue to divide an already divided country, and get the two sides even farther apart.  And yes - we can get farther apart - far enough apart to decide that a civil war is the only way to fix it.

 

Jen

 

Re: Are you a troll?

not answering for her............. however, she has been registered here since 7/19/2010, has made 1,490 posts and has been kudo'd multiple times and has kudo'd others multiple times.

 

there is another new poster, goes by allenjessenic............ nobody questioning him or her............?? 

 

or, it could be that it is a political year and people tend to get more involved. 

 

just because you don't like someones message, doesn't make them a troll. Milligan said similar the first time she cracked him.  That is called deflection. 

NewAgJudge
Senior Contributor

Re: For r3020

 

 

They can never prove anything, Jen.

 

Like BA says, in the buybull discussion "It's Our job to disprove it "

 

LOL<,Christian logic, so cute and wrong.

 

 

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: For r3020

Turning this guy in might be part of the iran nuclear deal.

 

snip-

The Iranian scientist who American officials say defected to the United States, only to return to Tehran on Thursday, had been an informant for the Central Intelligence Agency inside Iran for several years, providing information about the country’s nuclear program, according to United States officials.

 

The Times gave details of Amiri’s information, which was said to include the location of Iran’s covert nuclear research program.

That all looks to me like a deliberate effort by the administration to get Mr. Amiri killed.  US officials were officially telling the Iranian regime that Amiri was indeed a CIA agent.  No surprise, then, that he was arrested when he went to Tehran, and no surprise that he was ultimately executed.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelledeen/2016/08/09/why-was-our-iranian-spy-killed-by-the-mullahs/#...

jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: For r3020

What are you talking about? This guy wasn't "turned in". He left the US on his own accord. He wanted to go back to his family. You make it sound like he was extradited, which he wasn't.

So, where's your smoking gun, the email tie to Secretary Clinton? Which is what we are really talking about here. I want to see your tie in to the stolen emails. YOU'RE one of those that was saying it. The above says NOTHING about Secretary Clinton's emails.

Jen