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Senior Contributor

Re: However....

Oh really? Pleased to see you have not lost your hatred for all things Democrat.

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Senior Advisor

Re: Do you blame Detroit on liberals

Or the corporatists that abandoned Detroit?

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Honored Advisor

Re: Do you blame Detroit on liberals

Well Don, look at the party in control of Detriot since 1964 and see the facts as they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Detroit

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Senior Advisor

Re: Do you blame Detroit on liberals

So the auto industry decides to abandon detroit and you blame the conomic chaos on the mayors of Detroit.?

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Honored Advisor

Re: Do you blame Detroit on liberals

Don, your team had that Godforsaken town since `64, they ooooown the mess. The big 3 auto co`s didn`t abandon that town, they went broke paying pensions to all the retired UAW`s. And BTW when the negroes set fire to the city back in `67, it wasn`t very conducive to bussiness expansion.

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Senior Advisor

Re: Don't You think those employees

Earned those pensions by the sweat of their brow? Just a minor clarification.  Fringe benefits are not a gift from company to employees. They are an earned benefit that is supposed to be fully funded by the company. Labor has fulfilled their end of the contract. Failure by companies to fulfill their end of the contract is a breach that you shouldn't blame on labor.

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Honored Advisor

Re: Don't You think those employees

The employees may have earned and perhaps even in some cases deserved their pensions.....but it was the #1500 bale of straw that broke the camel`s back. It was an expense Honda and Toyota didn`t have, that made Detroit uncompetitive. It`s a benefit very, very few workers have ever had and even fewer workers will have in the future. It just goes to show when labor demands and management agrees to unsustainable promises, everyone loses. 

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Senior Contributor

Re: Agreement

There it is BA,  "when labor demands and management agrees to"

2 parties were involved.

If management did not think they could afford the pensions then they should not have agreed.

I think there was a bit of 'let tomorrow worry about the cost' and then of course the 'big 3' forgot to build efficient reliable cars too. Who made that decision??

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Honored Advisor

Re: Agreement

Canuck, unions had Detroit tied up so bad no one could have built cars saying "No" to the unions. I have the Sopranos on dvd. In the show, anyone having a business in Newark had to give the Soprano "family" a "taste" or there would be an unfortunate fire, someone would get beaten badly or workers would go on strike and God help the hapless fool that would cross the picket line. I know it`s just a show but in reality if you didn`t capitulate to the unions, you wouldn`t be building cars in Detoit. What good did those ridiculous pensions do for anyone other than ONE generation? The golden goose `got whacked`. Gas prices were another breaker. Had gas stayed below a buck fifty, you`d still see the highways bumper to bumper with Yukons and Expeditions, $1.50 to +$4.00 in a couple years = disaster. The big 3 did not abandon Detroit, Detroit abandoned Detroit.

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Senior Advisor

Re: Don't You think those employees

I suggest you tell your landowner that the rent charges are simply unsustainable and that you will pay less than is owed this fall even thoughyou have a signed contract. Or you elevator tell you that their business is not sustainable and they will only pay $1 less per bushel than your signed contract stipulates.

 

It seems we believe in the sanctity of the contract except when labor is involved. Then it is ok to reneg on a contract.. In fact many farmers on this board are enraged at Obama for helping GM and Chrysler because they wanted the UAW brought to their knees.

 

Yet Toyota and Honda with their favorable labor rates will charge you as much or more than an American nameplate. Why do you suppose that is? Perhaps labor is not the defining factor in car prices.