Graduation

[bruce MN]

1Trillion in outstanding student debt. More than the housing shortfall. Not to discuss whether all of those people needed to go to trade school or college. Lots of views on that and no easy answers. But it's a huge bubble. Somebody gave those people those loans with no security other than future earnings. At least on a house or a commercial loan there was something tangible involved. You can't foreclose on a degree or certificate. Gobs of it owed by students who never finished. Hellacious bubble. No way it doesn't pop. Maybe soon. Easier group of "walkawayers" to organize/mobilize than real estate owners. Does anybody know if there is a big student loan glob like this in any of those Eurozone countries that are in tough economic shape?

[BA Deere]

Well, if you travel through NW Ia there`s all kinds of help wanted signs, at the Demco factory a big flashing sign "Welders, we need you!!".  I`m yet to see and "Art majors wanted" signs.  A young person needs to look what`s available in the way of employment before wasting 4 yrs and $80,000 for a deadend.  If welders are needed and a 6 mo or 1 yr trade school stint can get you that job, it`s a no-brainer. The reason college is so high is everyone parrots the same line "gotta get a degree!! gotta get a degree!!" Well Starbucks is full of cappacino maestros with degrees in English Lit.

[bruce MN]

Thanks for nothing for  honoring my request to not talk about all of that shiit.  I was trying to set this at a higher plain.

I was woindering about the technical back draft that can't help but come at us.

People have been attending schools for centuries taking all sorts of different courses and studying in all sorts of disciplines.  I understand what you are saying and agree in principle.  We don't do a very good job of channeling, but then there is this "expand your horizons" deal that is important also if we are going to continue to make a better world.   But I didn't want to go there, but so be it as you will.

Welding or teaching violin lessons......how the he!! does an economy deal with that much obvious delinquency?  At 8 bucks an hour or 300K per year, on average it ain't gonna get paid off.

And the blame onthis one isn't nearly as "on" the government as housing or commercial real estate might have been.  Banks loved this junk.

[BA Deere]

So the `higher plain` that you wanted to discuss was that student loan debt is a bubble? ...well duh, but it can just get inline behind all the other bubbles.  The national debt bubble is twice the size at $50,000 for each and everyone of us, student loan debt only affects a few of us and those that have it`s and average of $25,000(the price of a used car) 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/05/the-student-debt-crisis-we-dont-talk-about/25714...  Let`s get to the root of the proble, too many kids go to college that aren`t college material that raises the cost of tution (why would a college have to get competitive if students have seats full and are sitting on the floor in class?)  Then there`s my pet peeve that 22% of tution costs in some instances goes to provide "scholarships" for kids that didn`t mow lawns and sweat detassling corn all summer for their college cost. In other words some students with school debt would have 1/5 less if they didn`t have to fund sholarships for students that only the university finds deserving.

[hardnox604008]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_loans_in_Germany

This doesn't really say anything as to aggregate outstanding but sort of supports my initial thought which is that those countries are more likely to straight up subsidize that which is deemed a social good.

Anyway, the Generational Cycle says that at this point the elders need to make a complete hash of things before the new greatest generation takes the reins. I doubt that we are there yet but we're heading there.

[hardnox604008]

There is more than a germ of thruth in the Santorum "snob" comments beyond just class resentment baiting.

The national push to put virtually all kids in college prep curricula was misguided although it would be worth noting that was very bi-partisan as everyone jumped on the echo Sputnik notion that we needed to have all 8 year olds doing calculus or the yellow menace would take over the world.

There is a distinct lack of public supported voc ed training and a lot of what is being done is delivered through private entities that are a big part of the aforementioned problems. A kid who doesn't have other problems CAN get a job as an auto mechanic with Lincoln Tech degree but after he buys tools etc., is going to be paying on that $30K tab for long time.

Germany's "world class" workforce is the result of national policies for two track secondary education and subsidized apprenticeship training programs with industry.

[Red Steele]

I don't think your argument about the funding of scholarships holds water, BA. Where I went to college, 96% of the students get financial aid now, and only the rich kids that can afford $50,000 per year pay the full freight, and that is due to the college really not wanting them but allowing them to go there if they pay for some of the others. Seems like a fair bargain to me. You can be filthy rich in America and your kids, if they do well academically  and keep their noses clean, can go to a private college completely free. What a deal. THere are 100% scholarships available to bright kids, paid for by the less cerebral but filthy rich classmates.

State schools are an entirely different deal. Hard to make an argument that any kid at the local state college is paying the freight for anyone else in their class, unless it is an affirmative action type case. Maybe I am missing something about how financial aid at a public college works. I will know a lot more in a few years.

[Red Steele]

Agco Industries in Jackson MN is advertising right now for over 200 positions of line workers for their tractor plant that pay starting wages of $17.50 per hour ($35,000 per year) plus benefits.  Men and women that want to work and have a clean record can find a job like that and pay off their debts rather that whining and protesting. And that is a 2000 hour  per year  work schedule, they can also probably work another job too.

American wages are finally showing up as a bargain with the diminished value of the US dollar, but we still need to find the workers. We need to reintroduce the concept that "jobs" is not another four letter word.

Get rid of the entitlement mentality. Nothing prepares someone for life better than some hard work.

[Canuck_2]

All that debt is a problem for someone.

Some of it will come back to haunt the 'student' who wracked up the debt and some of them lived well while in school on borrowed money. This is a problem created by a consumerism society that thinks they can have everything and pay for it later.

So I went looking for info on Canadian student debt and info on repayment etc. Did not find what I was looking for but know there is big $ outstanding here too.

Many students from lower income families especially get grants to cover some of their education I was also looking for info on repayments because there are different options for people having trouble repaying their loans in Canada but did not find much except options to spread out payments.

Nox talking about Europe brings up a good point about the differences in education where Europe has a much bettter apprenticeship program which helps many get an education and have an income at the same time.

And special for BA who wants to talk about the lack of benefits of education I stumbled on this link while looking for Canadian info.

Now this is from a "Christian" organization, says it right in its name 'The Christian Science Monitor' and it lists 10 top reasons to get an eduction. Most but not all mean more $$ for the graduate.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2010/1028/Top-10-benefits-of-a-college-degree/Increased-earning-po...

And as a side note, a friend of mine who has a car repair business has had 2 people from a local religious school try to become licensed motor mechanics through an apprenticeship and he says they could do the work but did not have enough schooling to do the paper work and testing required to get their license so they dropped out and went off to work elsewhere at something else.

Obviously they did not add to the student loan problem. 

[hardnox604008]

Continue to beat around the bush as far as your question regarding what the heck to do aobut this.

But as a matter of formulating good public policy, well worht noting that letting "private enterprise" into the trough definitely hasn't helped as a big chunk of that debt went to costly and questionable value degrees (or failed attempts at degrees) from for-profits.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/03/for-profit-colleges-unemployment-debt_n_1182164.html