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Honored Advisor

It`s better to be judged by 12...

...than carried by 6.    Look Canuck, if you and your family are home playing a board game and some thugs break down the door, you have to expect the worst.  Everyone around these parts has the same story their Sheriff told "If they break in you can shoot `em and for your own good, dead men can`t tell tales wink wink, and if you happen to shoot `em outside, be sure you drag `em inside before you call me wink wink" .  I would not recommend that anyone tamper with evidence by dragging a dead carcass into your house..wait until they break in.  In this day and age of CSI, its the coverup that would get you in trouble.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Guns don't shoot people

This is where I start having problems.  Someone is in their own house, doing whatever, and someone starts prying open their locked door.  The guy comes rushing in with a crowbar, and you shoot him.  So why is it the homeowner would be treated as the criminal? 

In my opinion, you are looking at things upside down.  How do you KNOW that the homeowner is overreacting?  Do they have to wait unti the criminal actually says "I now plan to either rape your wife and daughter, and/or kill you." before you can react?  Doesn't the person involved in the illegal activity more or less take their lives in their own hands when they decided to break into your house. 
Of course, around here, the gun control people automatically assume that if you are a gun owner, the first thing you do when you hear something scratching at the door is to come out guns a-blazing, and that is a misconception.  If someone is chopping through my front door, I will in no uncertain terms let them know that I am armed.  They will then hear the sound of me shucking a shell in the shotgun.   After that, it is their decision if it is worth getting shot or to leave.  I have heard that nothing in my house is worth shooting anyone over.  If you can give me an absolute guarantee that all they want is stuff, you may be right.  However, I have two daughters, and the innocence of either one is worth more to me than any rapist I can think of, and FAR more than a killer's.

Instead of 'there is nothing in my house worth shooting someone over'  the line of thinking should be 'it's not worth getting shot for whatever I might carry out of this house.'  

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Veteran Contributor

Re: Guns don't shoot people

Amen, brother
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Senior Contributor

Re: Guns don't shoot people

These conversations of people breaking in other people's homes reminds me of humorous comment my late father said several years back at family reunion taking place at his farm home.  A young and somewhat gullible wife of one of my cousins who had lived in L.A. her entire life asked my father if he locked his cars at night out on the farm.  My father replied, "Heck no!  If someone wants to steal my car or truck, I sure don't want them coming in the house looking for the keys."   Of course my father never locked his house at night and typically only did when there would be no one home.

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Senior Contributor

Re: It`s better to be judged by 12...


@BA Deere wrote:

...than carried by 6.    Look Canuck, if you and your family are home playing a board game and some thugs break down the door, you have to expect the worst.  Everyone around these parts has the same story their Sheriff told "If they break in you can shoot `em and for your own good, dead men can`t tell tales wink wink, and if you happen to shoot `em outside, be sure you drag `em inside before you call me wink wink" .  I would not recommend that anyone tamper with evidence by dragging a dead carcass into your house..wait until they break in.  In this day and age of CSI, its the coverup that would get you in trouble.


The story is getting better. Started out someone trying to break in now they are in.

 

So if someone came to my house with intent to break in I would likely hear the driveway alert.

If not the dogs would sound off as soon as they approached the door.

Now if at sometime I suspected trouble 911 would be called, the intruder would be warned that the police are on the way and if they continued we would go from there.

Shooting first is not a good practice many innocent people have been gunned down because they knocked on the wrong door.

Odds of getting broken into while we are at home extremely slim.

Odds of getting broken in while we are away only slightly greater.

Odds of a robber leaving after they hear the dogs, very high.

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Senior Contributor

Re: Guns don't shoot people


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

This is where I start having problems.  Someone is in their own house, doing whatever, and someone starts prying open their locked door.  The guy comes rushing in with a crowbar, and you shoot him.  So why is it the homeowner would be treated as the criminal? 

In my opinion, you are looking at things upside down.  How do you KNOW that the homeowner is overreacting?  Do they have to wait unti the criminal actually says "I now plan to either rape your wife and daughter, and/or kill you." before you can react?  Doesn't the person involved in the illegal activity more or less take their lives in their own hands when they decided to break into your house. 
Of course, around here, the gun control people automatically assume that if you are a gun owner, the first thing you do when you hear something scratching at the door is to come out guns a-blazing, and that is a misconception.  If someone is chopping through my front door, I will in no uncertain terms let them know that I am armed.  They will then hear the sound of me shucking a shell in the shotgun.   After that, it is their decision if it is worth getting shot or to leave.  I have heard that nothing in my house is worth shooting anyone over.  If you can give me an absolute guarantee that all they want is stuff, you may be right.  However, I have two daughters, and the innocence of either one is worth more to me than any rapist I can think of, and FAR more than a killer's.

Instead of 'there is nothing in my house worth shooting someone over'  the line of thinking should be 'it's not worth getting shot for whatever I might carry out of this house.'  


This did not start out as someone already in my house with a crowbar.

Shooting or even brandishing a gun when someone is trying to break in is not the first things I would do.

See my post to BA.

I still think way too many people would hesitate too long when confronted with an armed intruder and the result would be worse than other options.

If the intruder came for your daughters then you are probably dealing with a very sick individual that you already know. That sort of assault is invariably some kind of 'domestic dispute' girl friend /ex boyfriend .

If they just wanted your daughters they would pick them up unobserved by you or others.

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Senior Contributor

Re: Guns don't shoot people


@dagwud wrote:

These conversations of people breaking in other people's homes reminds me of humorous comment my late father said several years back at family reunion taking place at his farm home.  A young and somewhat gullible wife of one of my cousins who had lived in L.A. her entire life asked my father if he locked his cars at night out on the farm.  My father replied, "Heck no!  If someone wants to steal my car or truck, I sure don't want them coming in the house looking for the keys."   Of course my father never locked his house at night and typically only did when there would be no one home.


There you go dag, the reason I am not worried about being 'intruded' on.

The keys are in the truck and if they want the car my wife is the only one who knows where she left the keys for it and it will take her a while to find them.

House doors are unlocked. Lock the main door when we go away but that is just so no one opens it and accidentally lets the dogs out.

Guns? If I have one I'm not telling and it will not be easy to get AND the ammunition is locked up separate.

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Honored Advisor

Guns are like fire extinguishers, Cauck

Years ago the Wife had a oil fire going on the stove, she hollered.  When I got there it was a danged big flame, something a wet dishcloth wouldn`t handle.  Well, in a emergency things sort of slow down, I knew where a extinguisher was and I believe that was the first time I ever used one, it saved our house no doubt.  Another time I was combining beans with a old 7700 it was dry and dusty of course and as Mr Murphy would have it a fuel return line sprung a leak, squirting diesel on a hot engine and bean dust.  Needless to say by the time I noticed the smoke in the dust I had a good sized flame going.  Once again things slowed down, I emptied the extinguisher on it and threw soil on it for good measure.  Everyone I tell that story to says "I bet you wish you let it just burn and collect the insurance? Smiley Very Happy"  No, I didn`t it was a damned good machine and I didn`t have insurance.  That Fire extinguisher saved me many thousand$ that I didn`t have.  Be perpared Canuck, be prepared!  

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Senior Contributor

Re: Guns don't shoot people

  Canuck, you're right about the amount of time to react. The gun nuts talk a big game, but statistics prove that they don't have the training or even the courage to react properly, that is to say that when they do, they tend to over-react in those situations or do nothing at all. Also, having a loaded and easily accessible gun when and where you need it when the hypothetical situation arises, is out of the question because one of the biggest detriments to gun ownership is that guns are highly sought after by thieves, more so than other things because of the black-market value and it's lack of traceability back to them(the thieves).

  Statistics also prove that white-collar crime has a more devastating impact when it happens and also long into the future versus mild violent crime, with having a wallet or purse stolen over a life's savings pilfered. The potential for the life's savings to be stolen is higher statistically, but people fear the mild violence or the potential of it of having a wallet or purse stolen more. 

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Guns don't shoot people

Canuk, this started with someone 'breaking into my house' yet somehow a guy prying the door open with a crowbar isn't part of the equasion.  How will he get into my house without one if my doors & windows are locked?  Once he does get the door open I highly doubt he'll put the crowbar down, just so if I shoot him, it won't be justified.

Tom, while you are quoting statistics, why don't you quote the one where an armed citizen is MORE likely to point their gun at the actual perp (as opposed to an innocent) than the Police are, and areas where gun ownership is high have less crime.  Most of the time, all you have to do is let the perp know you are armed, and they leave you alone, and go find someone to rob who isn't armed.

I learned those stats, and others while taking my Concealed Carry and self-defense class (not required in most states to own a gun, but I highly recommend them if you are considering buying one - just for the sake of being properly informed, as opposed to having only part of the story).  Probably the most important part of the whole thing is the shoot/don't shoot training.  Rather than shooting at anything that moves, or loading your gun and leaving it where a criminal can take it (two very common misconceptions) they teach you things like where to keep your gun, when to retrieve it, when/how to load it, and how to react in various situations, and the most important thing, what to do to aviod an armed confrontation whenever possible.
That said, if you are unfamiliar/untrained with a gun, maybe you shouldn't own one, but why berate me if I want to?

I have never shot anyone accidentally, my guns have never been in a crime, nor stolen, and I have saved more than one baby calf that was being harassed by coyotes with a gun.  So far I have had several positives and no negatives to ownership.  I'm not saying that you should get one, I just ask that you let me keep mine unharassed.