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hardnox
Advisor

How Trump is losing in Syria

https://www.juancole.com/2018/03/trump-losing-posturing.html

 

In fairness, everybody has made self serving claims when it comes to their turn to bite the #### sandwich that is the Forever War, but anyway.

 

This lays out a decent synopsis of what is really happening and the "Trump defeated ISIS" thingy.

25 Replies
Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

the article said this:

"While the plan to defeat ISIL with the help of the Kurds worked, it is being interrupted in its last stages by the Turkish invasion of Afrin, one of three Kurdish enclaves in northern Syria and the only one where US troops were not embedded."

 

But clearly Obama's plan to overthrow Assad failed.

 

And its was a totally messed up plan with about 6 sides and the USA supporting numerous ones to various degrees in a confused and unfocused manner with the only clear goal being that of getting rid of Assad.  What was supposed to happen after Assad was deposed I guess was planned out with the diligence of that of Gadaffi.

 

One of the posters here made a comment about our side losing in Syria,  I asked him which side was ours.   He said I was being obtuse.

rsbs
Veteran Advisor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

He is a "special" one. Trying to get a straight answer out of him is like trying to herd cats. I have pretty much given up.

 

When you don't really have a core set of values that you believe in, and everything is shifting sand, it is probably pretty easy to side with Team D and be a loyal supporter.

 

 

hardnox
Advisor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

You're probably being a bit disingenuous, having supported GWB over the other worse choice and been all in for McCain w/Palin.

 

But sure, whatever. If there's a rub on Obama it is that he somehow didn't for a status of forces agreement with Iraq after Bush failed to and ISIS grew out of Sunni Iraq. The operations against ISIS in Syria had commenced before Trump came to office but the use of air power was certainly deployed in a more brutal fashion.*

 

When Obama kicked the red line question about intervention in Syria to the GOP congress it was a no go.

 

Anyway, the point being that "Trump defeated ISIS" is a talking point that is about as meaningful as "Obama got OBL."

 

Other than one comes from serious manly people, the other from silly hysterical folks.

 

*as far as complaints about the brutality against civilians in the current Syrian offensive, the US did the same as far as denying humanitarian relief during the recent ISIS offensive. Just fwiw.

 

 

Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

Taleb's skin in the game philosophy, if you agree with it, then you understand why our interventions all over the world from georgia, to ukraine, all over the middle east and north Africa were misguided to the point of evil and why Iraq was maybe just a bit less so. 

 

Going forward it would be a measure I'd like to see used.

hardnox
Advisor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

At this point it isn't even up for debate that prior to the invasion the US had managed a very cheap and effective containment of Iraq, and that also contained Iran.

 

There isn't anywhere to go to whatabout it.

Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

I'm not sure you'd call the first Iraq war cheap, probably not even paid for yet. 

 

But why is containing any of them your concern?

hardnox
Advisor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

That war was exceedingly cheap by current standards and largely paid for by pledges from allies, to boot.

 

But I was referring to the 12 years of sanctions, embargo, no fly. Unexciting but very effective.

 

Iraq was no threat to much of anyone other than its own people.

Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

No, but it still didn't answer the question. 

 

And what threat was Libya, Syria, or Yemen?

 

No skin in the game.   Just like drone warfare.

hardnox
Advisor

Re: How Trump is losing in Syria

You're on track for the all time champeen whatabout here.

 

Sort of reminds me of what somebody said about the Pauls. They make sense for five minutes if they'd just stop.

 

Rand is currently doing some good Paul stuff- opposing the Pompeo and Haspell nominations.