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bruce MN
Advisor

How is this going to square up?

In the GOP and in the "conservative" movement?

 

Will it create  severe conflict between the business community that provides most of the funding and the nativist, racist cultural right which supplies most of the enthusiasm and votes?

 

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/business-prepares-to-market-their-latest-product-immigrat...

 

My guess would be ti would drive the big player chamber of commerce types hard in to the "centrist" Clinton, DLC, corporatist wing o the Democratic party, where Obama is proving more day by day to be firmly planted, much to the shagrin of his liberal supporters BTW.

 

 

 

 

15 Replies
BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: How is this going to square up?

I can`t get too excited about the future of the Republican party on the national stage or for America for that matter.  We will have a $22 Trillion nat debt, probably 20 million new "citizens", more voters that are more dependent on the government for their livelihood by the next presidential election.  It`s just a cruel pipe-dream to think that all the Republicans have to do is support "immigration reform" and as if by alchemy over half the Latinos will become a part of the GOP electorate.  Not gonna happen... pathway to citizenship is only one of about 50 other reasons that Mexicans are Demorats, the whole GOP platform would have to do a complete 180º and even then ..why not dance with the ones that brung ya, the Democrats?   I think the Repubs should cede the office of US president and concentrate on governorships, house seats and chip away at the senate, the electoral college is just simply too stacked against the GOP.  Case in point look at bankrupt California, never again will that state be in play for a GOP president, many more states like Ill and NY are also in that camp, no sense in watering down your principles and wasting money campaigning in those states, just run a poorly funded figurehead candidate that you will know`ll lose.  As to the GOP rebuilding at some unknown point, perhaps it`s time to get brutally honest and go back to the GOP`s roots and apologise to the American people for this failed free trade they`ve saddled us with, *you know when Mitt Romney said 47% won`t vote for me, some of those were probably conservatives that because of their $30/hr job going to China needed public assistance to survive, maybe if the GOP could reach those people. Say to them, we`ll let you keep your guns, we`ll have a safety net when you fall...BUT we`ll bring BACK your lost $30 job so you don`t need that safety net. That is what Mitt should`ve articulated better*) anyway, just my thoughts.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: How is this going to square up?

And now from the department of "we are so fcuked" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265134/California-Hispanic-population-exceed-whites-end-201...   And to anyone that thinks that the media isn`t against us http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/whoops-politifacts-lie-year-turns-out-be-true_696223.html    last yr before election the left comes out with these "fact checker" websites, like "fact" in the web`s name makes it soSmiley LOL   and through trickery calls everything the Republicans say is a "lie" then the national media uses that as one of their "sources".  Too many of the public gets their "news' from David Letterman`s monolgue and Jon Stewart.  You know back in the olden days Johnny Carson would do a monolgue and it was never vicious, you never knew where he stood politically, Walter Cronkite read the news and that was the way it was.  Now Fox is the only mainstream that reports and let`s you decide, but they are lambasted by "fact checkers".  I don`t watch Fox, but when that liberal outfit is made fun of by the cool people, we really are fcuked.  

Red Steele
Veteran Advisor

Re: How is this going to square up?

BA, I don't think the GOP opposition, or whatever party emerges if the GOP goes away, is going to gain any traction until the finances of the country become a zero sum game....where it becomes clear that if x dollars go to z, then x dollars must come from y. As long as the printing presses and no limit US Treasury credit cards are allowed to keep the charade of new money being created, and as long as no one feels the pinch of additional entitlement spending, nothing changes.

 

And on the way to reaching this, taxes eventually rise to the level that most of the economic business in America goes underground....cash or barter....to avoid taxation.  We are a long ways from that scenario right now, but give the current trajectory another decade and we are there.

 

Only then will any meaningful change come....and a guy like Mitt ROmney will seem too far to the left and liberal for what probably fills the void then....Romney and his vision might have prevented what will come to pass....right now I don't see anything good transpiring during most of the rest of my life.

 

I was thinking this morning that we , the American People, will probably soon quit celebrating the fourth of July, and instead change the holiday to some sort of apology to the British and Canadian tories and maybe to the rest of the world. I think Orwell had too rosey of a view of the future.

 

A few bad apples do eventually spoil the whole barrel if they are not removed, and America is full of bad apples right now.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: How is this going to square up?

Red, BA, I think you guys summed it up pretty well, there is no opposition party to the dems. They got their tax increase, their 60 billion sandy relief bill, they will get their debt ceiling increase and there will be no meaningful cut to spending, I think a 20 trillion debt is being generous for 2016. Never again will a conservative when the office of President and I question how long they will have any power at the state level. When state such as Cal, NY, IL run out of other peoples money the electorate will go where the money is with the same results we have now in these bankrupt states. Don't know how many years it will take but think it will happen much sooner than Red is predicting.

cotman03
Senior Contributor

Re: How is this going to square up?

There is already a cash/barter black market involving the use of food stamp cards.  It is not to avoid taxation but to avoid the rules of that program.  Just saw too that a government group put together to analzye the food stamp program says it's not paying recipients enough.  There are many ways to redistribute wealth without calling it that.  Higher taxes and government irresponsibility with those tax dollars will certainly cause businesses and responsible citizens to do just what you say....cash/barter. 

gough whitlam
Senior Contributor

Re: How is this going to square up?

Well well well.  Isn't it strange how it goes the full circle.  There are so many who are totally against immigration, illegal or otherwise and now we find the business, who were probably saved by some stimuuls packages and the spin off of others, now want labor.  How can the government be that bad when they produce demand and subsequently jobs.

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: How is this going to square up?

Proof positive of the growing fascist state. Notice how the administration is working on forging ties with business to effect gun policy, obamacare is fascist of course, and this on immigration. The prols on either side fail to recognize that this is fascism not socialism.
kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: How is this going to square up?

You may think there is no future for the GOP but you are wrong. The old GOP would find alot of support but only if they divorce themselves from the teabaggers, the crazies and the big government types. ( the ones that want to invade your bedroom and your sex lives, the american taliban)

 

Your beloved Reagan would not fit in your party, Not even Eisenhower, nor would George Herbert Walker Bush.

The trouble is you're selling a product the public won't buy. In the first place america has to like you to elect you.Mitt Romney was careful to make sure nobody liked him. Jeb Bush may have been a different story but as long as a candidate is tied to the nonthinking extremists it will be ahard sell.

 

Plus the republican misuse of power the last four years would give anyone pause about increasing that power. You are quite clear about what you want to do and america rejected that. Of course in your political strong holds, they believe all that crap you are putting out. The truth is you not only want a smaller government, you don't want to pay for any government. You've made the government your enemy. You laud and applaud the job creators that don't create jobs. They export them.

 

You rely on Fox news and LImbaugh for your information. Limbaugh is not a builder. He is a tear downer that has made his wealth on negativism and cynicism. A Goebblesque commentater that thrives on diminishing the opposition. A complete and total war against democrats. A demonization of all on that other side of the political spectrum. And you buy it lock stock and barrel.

 

You want to diminish labor, women, latinos, black folks, poor folks, old folks, sick folks, unemployed folks, low paid folks and yet your bound and determine that we make more of them. You simply hate too many people and you make that quite clear that you think those peoples condition is their own fault. And you want them to find self reliance where none is available. AND you expect them to vote for you.

 

Thats like insulting your mrs all day and expecting her to be warm and cuddly at night. After not to long they conclude that you are the ahole that your are

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: How is this going to square up?

I don`t think that the GOP is dead, except on the national level.  There are pockets of very conservative areas, but it is almost a "urban"/rural divide.  Like in the 70`s you saw "white flight" to the suburbs. The reason a GOP candidate for president can no longer be competitive is take California..as goes LA and San Fran, so goes the whole state of electoral votes and dittos for Chi-town and Illinois, NYC and New York.  Yet there will be conservative pockets in those states.  As for the typical 0bama voter, we`ve all seen examples of a well off family take spoils kids and they turn into brats.  Now, one day that dad and ma might lose their jobs and can`t make payments on the Acadia and McMansion...poof! away goes the Vail ski trips, Carribean cruises and "Rock revival" jeans...the teenage kids throw a fit because Pa tells them "We are going to have to tighten our belts from here on"  ...The kids slam their door, if they still have one and scream "I HATE YOU!!!!"   And that my dear Mr Kraft is the problem that we have with the electorate in America today.  The kids only loved their parents as long as they got spoiled.