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Veteran Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

My source is the language of the bill. You seem to think it's ok if our govt's secrets are hacked. You don't that someone should be able to shut things down in order to stop that from happening?? Sure am glad you and people like aren't running things!
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Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

 Well, I sure am glad you found something to be glad about!   I did not say it was"OK if our govt's secrets are hacked" I am sure they have ample means to protect "secrets" without limiting the free exchange of information, free speech, or censor news like the military dictatorship in Israel.  

 

 .  Do you notice you keep repeating yourself?  You used a very similar ad hominem attack by suggesting what I think in your previous response.  Why bother, or is it early symptoms of dementia? 

 

  No, I rep eat, I do not believe the government should be able to "shut things down", this is the USA where real Patriots believe Liberty is worth the risk and believe govt' should be strictly limited and elected officials should not be given the authority to limit free speech.  --"Those who have been once intoxicated with power and have derived any kind of emolument from it can never willingly abandon it." -- Edmund Burke

 

 I don't believe my government should need to have secrets, they are involved in too many crimes, but I understqand they have their flocks brainwashed into believing overthrowing other people's governments,murdering people who stand in the way of banksters and industrials making fortunes, like Major General Smedely Butler wrote about in his book War Is A Racket --http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

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Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

 "Free government is founded in jealousy, not confidence.  It is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions, to bind those we are obliged to trust with power.... In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."  Jefferson  1799

 

"It is weakness rather than wickedness which renders men unfit to be trusted with unlimited power." -- John Adams, 1788

 

"The trade-off between freedom and security, so often proposed so seductively, very often leads to the loss of both." -- Christopher Hitchens in the August, 2003 issue of Reason.

 

 "Patrick Henry did not say 'give me absolute safety or give me death'  John Stossel

 

"For those looking for security, be forewarned that there's nothing more insecure than a political promise." -- Harry Browne


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Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

 First your wrote that it was explained to you, now you claim to have read the 200 pages of the bill???

 

Hmmmmmm     200 pages of weasel words establishing the government ownership of the internet?  And you do not see the risk of allowing the politicians to lay claim to controling the internet?  You have heard the parable of the camel's nose??

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

Unlike you obviously, when I read something, it is explained.  And I still don't see where shutting down select networks to stop a cyberattack is violating anyone's rights.  Is your last name Little?

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

Why don't you rep eat it one more time and really show how dumb you are.  This is not about shutting down the internet.  It is about being able to shut down specific networks under certain circumstances.

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Senior Contributor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

Bart you are a work of art.  First you say "explained to you" then you try to suggest you actually read the bill.  As John mentions you would be screaming and whining if this was suggested by Bush and Cheney.  You and other Dems including Obama complained about Bush's Patriot Act but then stayed suspiciously quiet after Obama became POTUS and embraced the use of the Patriot Act instead of banning it.  You Dems were upset when Bush used a computer program to red flags phone calls from inside the U.S. to countries suspected of terrorist activities to "help make us safe."   Why are you not now equally upset when Obama's homeland security chief, Janet Napolitano tells us the government needs to monitor internet communications to "help make us safe." 

 

Napolitano says, "We can significantly advance security without having a deleterious impact on individual rights in most instances. At the same time, there are situations where trade-offs are inevitable."   Sounds just like Bush talking a few years ago. 

 

Fighting homegrown terrorism by monitoring Internet communications is a civil liberties trade-off the U.S. government must make to beef up national security, the nation's homeland security chief said Friday.  As terrorists increasingly recruit U.S. citizens, the government needs to constantly balance Americans' civil rights and privacy with the need to keep people safe, said Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

 

Yet you reply, "It only gives the power to shut down vital govt and business networks in case of a concentrated cyber attack against this country."  I'm thinking you need to read more or have it explained to you a little better just what the goal of the Obama administration is in regards to controlling and monitoring the internet.   You appear to be both naive and hypocritical.

 

Repubs who were in favor of the Patriot Act under Bush also have little room to complain about Obama's wishes to now monitor internet communications.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

No, contrary to what you conjure up in your mind, this bill has no infringement of your rights and freedoms.  It is merely a tool to be used to shut down vital sensitive networks.  We already monitor the internet and also phone calls originating outside the country.  What we were upset about and what everyone should be upset about is the unwarranted interception of in-country calls by American citizens which definitely is a violation of the constitution freedom of speech and several other laws.  OUr govt cannot spy on Americans in this country without a warrant.  Plain and simple.  Understand?  I believe you need to read a little more.  This thread stated that Obama was going to "shut down" the entire internet if he felt it necessary.  I can without any reservation tell you that the internet is being monitored by the NSA.  Phone calls are a different breed.  Monitoring and shutting down are two different things.  You are the work of art and bad art at that.

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Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

 We we we???   You actually believe this government does not spy on citizens without a warrant?  You my friend need to read a lot more!

 

  Here's a new story about government's spying, please do not miss the point that this spying is not done by the government of the USA, but some combination of elements within this Nation's and elements of other Nation's bearuocracy     

 

   http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/22/2933892.htm

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Advisor

Re: Israel Joe's senate bill to censor Internet, forget 1st amendment

 snip WikiLeaks co-founder Julian Assange has given his strongest indication yet about the next big leak from his whistleblower organisation.

 

snip--

"I can give an analogy. If there had been mass spying that had affected many, many people and organisations and the details of that mass spying were released then that is something that would reveal that the interests of many people had been abused."

He agreed it would be of the "calibre" of publishing information about the way the top secret Echelon system - the US-UK electronic spying network which eavesdrops on worldwide communications traffic - had been used.

"I can give an analogy. If there had been mass spying that had affected many, many people and organisations and the details of that mass spying were released then that is something that would reveal that the interests of many people had been abused."

He agreed it would be of the "calibre" of publishing information about the way the top secret Echelon system - the US-UK electronic spying network which eavesdrops on worldwide communications traffic - had been used.