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Senior Contributor

Interesting thouhgts John

While I can agree with you about the people who 'float' through school with easy no value courses I do not think we can completely get rid of 'higher learning'.

There certainly is reason to scrap some courses but people graduating from those should be shunned by the hiring companies.

As noted by others the one thing that a degree from college shows is that the person has the get up and go and stick to it'iveness to get that degree especially if it is backed by a reputable school with courses with 'meat' in them.

So I would disagree with your proposal BUT suggest there could be some majour changes made in some schools.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Interesting thouhgts John

Heck.... our current State Senator (Appe|) has never attended anything after high school, in fact, I can't even find a record of her graduating high school. Not that there is anything wrong with a high school education..... but everyone seems to make such a big deal about some college degree.

I probably can truthfully say that I have learned more on the internet than all of the other collective formal class work that I may have had.

Frequent Contributor

You missed some points

I am BIG on higher education.  I think it takes way more "get up and go" and SELF DISCIPLINE, to learn the material on your own.  I dont believe anyone would be able to walk in and get a degree without having invested a lot of time studying a given area.  I suppose someone who has worked into a position might be capable after maybe 20 years of practicing.  For instance a para-legal that had practiced for 20 years might be able to pass the required test to be a lawyer  and probably be much more proficient than a new graduate is today.  But newbies in a given field would almost certainly have to study their butts off.  Outside the forced discipline enviroment of college classes, this would require greater dedication than going to class 16 hours per week for four years.

Frequent Contributor

Re: It is not unusual

The way this format is, I cant tell if that is directed toward me or not.   I am big on higher education.  I am very GLAD that I sent my sons to college, because the world IS NOT the way I propose.  My post is more of an acknowledgement that the information is so great on line that a person can fully self educate, while some areas would require access to a lab with tutorials.  Any words a professor can speak, can be written.  On line you cant ask a question but you can immediately get another explanation which might make you understand the point.


I would  think liberals would jump on this.  All the poor underpriviledged *sob* would be able to educate at their own pace practically free.  Dedication to "book larnin" (or internet) would be essential for a person to get a degree, except that people who have been exposed to a field for most of their life might be able to get credit.  Think of it as going to a college that allows you to clep out of all classes instead of some.  What's the differance except the tremendous waste at the college.  I think rather than people without a degree being jealous we have a situation of snobbery by those who do have a degree and are afraid of being exposed as ignorant.

Veteran Advisor

Re: It is not unusual

SEILL John, milligan, Kraft, dagwud, 4WD I agree that the posts for reply needs some improvement that is why I have gone to posting the persons name I am replying to.  This higher education thing needs some historical context and also needs some generational context. 

I graduated from MSU ( spartys college) in 1992 I was on the deans list for 4 terms (back before they went to semesters)  I graduated with a 3.7.

I was homeschooled up till going to college.

Just so you know indoctrination does occur on those college campi and it usually occurs in the humanities and science classes.  I found the vigourous debate of ideas and theory totally lacking and the willingnes for "learning: to be replaced by the recitation of material.  After my freshman year I took Clep tests to get out of the humanities so I could focus on my  major of Agri business mgt. 

Have you looked at the required classes of ISU's agriculture classes. Filled with humanities and social goblety **bleep**!

Colleges were instituted for the advancement of fields of learning and technology. 

The greatest thing college taught me was that no one has all the answers and a belief that is unchallenged will only become a fairy tale and a superstition that will pull you into an abyss of self delusion.I became a greater christian in the face of this advesarial confrontation. Thoguh I did learn to quit quaoting my denominations line of bull and only follow the Bible.

My first week at MSU I was reading about a psychology professor in the student paper who was advocating for the open sexual relationship between adolecent girls and grown men. The discusion didn't center around the rightness or wrongness of the statement but instead the moral authority I had to stand in the student commons and condem this IDea. I was 18 the professor was an old man.

I was from a small town rural michigan part of the world and had never thought this to be acceptable (I still don't) But I also thought that the folks on campus would be willing to debate the morality of the statemnet not the morality of the detractors.

While I was there I saw many students who used this time to find themselves. to me this is a waste of time.  Find yourself in an apprenticship or through a carreer path and then take courses that benefit your chosen path.

Many kids today graduate with so much debt that they can't possibly come out ahead.

How would someone who took my course that would now cost over 100,000 dollars come out with debt like that and start farming?

My parents had no money after the 80's I was told I would have to gain every scholarship I could to get through college plus work if I was to make it. I poured over any scholarship I could find and applied for them all.  I wrote essays and joined community orginizations. I got good grades in Highschool and applied for academic scholarships.  I worked hard during highschool and helped on the farm for my efforts my dad started giving me 10 steers a year from the time I was 15 till I graduated college.  He supplied the feed and I supplied the care.  When I got to college I never applied for a student loan and I didn't borrow a dime for my education when I signed up for my last term of classes I wrote a check and went on worry free. My education cost me in time and money and I appreciate it very much. 

Most kids just live off their parents and accumulate debt with a hope of paying it off later.  Now you can enroll in community service groups and the Goverment will pay it for you.

I am 38 I have friends who I went to college with, who in the last five years have taken out home equity loans to pay off college debt. Two of them have no job know and have lost their homes largley due to the home equity thing.

Today college education is a self feeding bloated dragon who has now turned to eat it's own I say we need to return to a system of higher education that is for field specific knowledge not an everlasting trip of finding yourself! That will never happen with todays crop of tenured professors by the way ( I had one proffessor who had no real world practical experience in agriculture but she was there for thier racial diversity she was black and from the city and told us that we needed to start running our moldboard plows 18 inches deep so as to fracture the hard pan! I told her that was the stupidest thing I had ever heard and she should go run a plow for a day herself before telling me how to do it! I didn't make the deans list that fall).  College is one topic that really bugs me! JR


Re: It is time to shut down the colleges

I can't recall a better discussion here.


I get the hairy eyeball from any number of fellow Democrats, many of whom are "credentailed professionals"...that's what you guys are talking about, I think....when I say that college isn't for everybody.


One thing that is going unoticed about the Obama adminitration is some of the innovative things they are talking about for education, one being short circuitng the requirements for teaching high school, particularily in some disciplines such as scinece and math. Getting real scientists and mathematicians into the classroom for a more practical presentation. My experience in with the public schools around here is that the science teachers are the worst..primarily becasue if they are good at what they do they have had a job in the best (big town, suburban) schools or are in private industry. There is one guy who taught sr. hi science for one year only in 5 different schools with an hours drive from here. Each time he was summarily cut after one year and wound up with a job somewhere else by June.


College costs:

Up until the mid 80s or so a person could earn most of what it cost to go to college in the fall with a decent summer job (or 15 steers). I went to a good small D3 private (Minnesota andIowa are full of them) for $2050/yr from 67-71. Same place now is $42K. There ain't no summer jobs that pay 12K per month around here. My old college classmates aren't donating enough to keep the foundation paying good scholarships to 600 or so incoming a's a mess. I see it as analogous to the "ownership society" ethic that got us this housing debt crisis. Just one more thing that would probably have to be burned completely down before it can ever function usefully again.  When the Pres. says he's like to see college affordable for anybody who wanted to go I don't think he's saying that he'd like to make $120,000 available in loans to every H S grad.  


Our 3 daughters graduated from good colleges in 1999, 2001 and 2004 and made alot of freinds whom they have kept up with. The condition of the employment status of those acquantences, in that same order, is startling. As for ours, the first two are working, the oldest the most stably, and the 2004 grad is back in school.


Huge, improtant topic...and a real fiscal and cultural mess...and from just one person here, thanks to everybody for this good rational discussion.


Re: It is not unusual

I don't know that I buy that anything more than a slight majority of college graduates(of any age) are Dems.  I'd like a cite for that please. 


I would say so many are Repubs because they are finally out working hard and earning their money only to have it taken by the Dems and given to those who choose to coast through life.  Most of my many friends from my college days are stronger Republicans than myself.  


Re: It is time to shut down the colleges

It is positively hilarious for someone like you, the knee-jerkiest of Dems to talk about indoctrinated robots.  It is the HEIGHT of hypocrisy. 



FYI, I havent listened to, quoted nor been mind numbed by Limbaugh(for nearly a decade now), Beck(never heard the man), or Hannity(only seen glimpses years ago on Fox(which I haven't watched since Katrina)).  So your whole theory is much like you don...Full of **bleep**e.



By the way...I have my college degree.  Can you say the same Don?


Re: It is time to shut down the colleges

this reply is to bruce. was interested by your thoughts on the cost of small private schools. since my daughters(and yours) attended these. the schools always plead poverty when increasing tuition. they love to tell us how to finance our childrens' education, but never discuss their attempts to control costs. One of my brothers works maintenance at a small private college in nwia and there has been a wage freeze for non-teaching staff for 2 years. they were told that wages were the majority cost of the school. since those were set and energy costs dropped, why then was tuition increased??? any way, the annual per centage increases just raise the cost of tuition exponentially. Eventually they will just price themselves out of business.  Other thing that always gets me is the professors taking a "sabbatical". From what?? is this just a way to say my vacation is more important than yours? We have Lutheran clergy taking "sabbaticals".  good grief. I realize the everyone should have or even deserve some time off, but months of paid vacation????

Veteran Advisor

Re: It is time to shut down the colleges

Ida, I could say something about 4x4 cash croppers using your line of thinking but I won't.  I do agree with your sabatical thing for sure I had a prof who took on in the middle of a class that really messed up some things for us all. I see corn is down to 3.08 in the center of the universe that should be fun HUH?  JR