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wehav
Senior Contributor

It's got to stop.

Locally the teacher got a 3.5% raise this year.  It was the same last year.  Our system is heavily funded by agriculture and business taxes.  Though the biggest business in town pays almost nothing in property tax because of a deal to come to our town.

 

The benefits of that business are increased taxes for the rest of us.  The only people that gained were stock holders and business that weren't local.

 

The stupidity of people is amazing.  They continue to get no increase in private wages but willingly vote for school board members who increase their taxes with higher teacher salaries and new buildings.

 

That 3.5% increase every year doubles the teachers wages in 20 years.  Many of those kids who went home and promoted supporting their teachers and new schools will be at a point in 20 years where they won't be able to afford a home because of high property and state taxes.  Those that stay anyway.

 

We as a society can't continue to increase government costs, especially when the private sector that pays for all these costs doesn't remotely continue to see an increase in income.

 

Government employee's pay no taxes, they pretend to pay but it's all smoke a mirrors.  What they actually are doing is getting a smaller paycheck.  They add nothing to the GDP and actually reduce it.  You can't fill a bucket from itself.

 

16 Replies
jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: It's got to stop.

How about 'the rest of the story'?  What were the teachers salaries when they started?  Teachers salaries tend to be low to begin with.  And then, compare those salaries with someone with as much education in a different career choice.  Then we can begin to maybe make the comparison of 'is this too much of a raise'.  Maybe it's not, if your going to keep competent people in your school system.  

 

As far as a new school, ask some of the parents in Detroit how their old schools are fairing, or in many, many other municipalities nationwide.  You think it's only our roads and bridges that need repair?  Think again....

 

What we have done, is like someone that builds the biggest house they can possibly afford, so they can show it off for all to see.  But then they forget that this house also has to be maintained.  And paid taxes on.  They can afford the house payment, but nothing else.  

 

We do that for a lot of things like that in this country.  I hate the fact that we are always building new stadiums especially - especially considering the new Viking Stadium that was just erected.  What a glimmering example of achievement for the Minneapolis area.   But why are we the tax payers also hung with that one.  Seems to me, that if the Vikings needed a new home to play in - and with how much the NFL makes - they could've - and should've - funded it themselves.  Now,with all the extra money they have after sticking tax payers with a bunch of the bill, they are building another mega-practice area - indoor - with what I think they said was hotels and maybe another convention area - something that will probably make them more money in the short term than a stadium that sits empty most of the time - and needs heat and maintenance.  I would much rather have invested that money in our schools who CAN'T afford to pay for these things.  Schools aren't fancy like the Vikings Stadium - but in the long run, which will have the biggest effect on the Minneapolis economy.

 

Just as a side note - when I took my job with Syngenta a few years ago, they advertised for someone who was good with computers, with exceptional knowledge of Microsoft Excel especially.  I did the interview - and they sat me in front of a computer and gave me a test on my knowledge of Excel.  I got done with the test, and told the guy giving it to me that they should've made a harder test, because this was too easy.  He looked at the test, and looked at me, and said, "We've had 40 people who said they would good with Excel come in and take the test.  You're the only one that has passed it."  I got the job.

 

The job entailed doing high end algebra within the cells of Excel, for the purpose of creating a spread sheet so we knew how much chemical to place on an individual seed for use in their seed coating experiments.  It was a great job, until I got exposed to a chemical or group of chemicals that made me cough for six months.  And I still have a sensitivity to anything that has polysorbates in them (polysorbates are an acid that is used to make other chemicals bind with each other, sorta like making water and oil mix).  

 

But here's the thing.  I got the job, and two weeks into this thing, I turned to the guys that hired me, and said, "You guys didn't need someone good in Excel, you needed a mathematician for this job!!"  They looked at me and laughed, and said, "If we had advertised for someone with math skills, no one would've applied".  And there's my point.  True story.  The fellows that I was working with, are the fathers of today's seed care industry, basically started right here in Stanton, MN.  They are in the process of making a new Seed Care Academy, (if you will) there in Stanton, with state of the art filtration that will hopefully keep the employee's from what happened to me.  (By the way, after my exposure treating seed, they did offer to keep me and just have me do the math on the spreadsheets - I turned it down.  Doing math - high end algebra, day after day for hours and hours is not a lot of fun.  But, I turned it down because I needed the hands on to see if what I did was actually right when I put it on the seed.  We didn't do just corn and soybeans, by the way.  How about grass seed, all the vegetable crops, and even as far as sugar cane.)  It was a great job.  The funny thing is that I couldn't even walk a straight line when I went in to take the test, because of a severe head injury I had had on y farm.  I told them about it - they hired me anyway.  I did comment to them, that, "Me, I'm the best?  I'm the best that you guys can find?"  And, by the way, I DON'T HAVE ANY COLLEGE.  Just high school - from a good school system that we had in Spencer, WI.  (I credit them, and that job, in getting my brain back to where it needed to be.  It made me think, hard, day after day.  Without that job, I may have lost a fair amount of my brain function)

 

My point - simple.  We are falling behind the rest of the world, and it begins with our school systems.  I know it is hard to spend the money - but to get the best available - you have to pay for it.  I did not go back to Oklahoma City to teach at the Academy when the new contract came up, because they cut all of our pay.  Yes - anyone can be replaced - maybe.  I was the instructor that had gotten the most positive comments from the out take done by the students.  Hands down.  They even did an article on me.  But - the $2.00 less and hour, was $2.00 less than I was willing to take, being that it require me to be away from home for 6 months at a time.  They lost a good instructor because they weren't willing to pay up.  How many students there have lost the chance to make it through, because I'm not there.  I'll never know.  You want the best....you have to pay for it.  Want mediocre - pay less than any comparable job around.  You want to become a third world country?  We're well on our way - and it's because of our school systems vs. the rest of the world.

 

Jen

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: It's got to stop.

I don`t put blame on teachers for failing kids, parents are the biggest blame.  The parents have raised "snowflakes" that make sure everyone gets a trophy and no one keeps score.  If a teacher disciples their kid, they go and ream the teacher, if the coach doesn`t let their kid play enough, they complain about the coach. 

 

I just saw where in the 80`s half the kids had summer jobs, now it`s 30%. 

 

I think the millenial generation really got screwed up as a whole, unfortunately they are a large generation and pretty damned liberal...their parents failed them.  

 

Generation Z that is now in college is much different and I`m around that generation every day.  They are focused, they actually rate the teachers on their ability to perpare them for college!   They talk to older siblings and ask if certain teachers perpared them for the college courses...and get this : IF a teacher doesn`t get them perpare they take it upon THEMSELVES to go online and take courses in their own free time!   I think they subliminally know that they can`t depend on anyone but themselves ultimately.  And oh yeah, Generation Z kept score at their Tee Ball games, even though the parents in charge didn`t  🙂

 

Generation Z is the first generation where parents come to their kids for help...no time in the past have we seen anuthing like this.  i`ll admit I can`t put pictures in my posts, on the rare occasions that I have pictures, it`s one of my kids doing it for me.    Gen Z grew up with electronic gadgets in their hands and it`s second nature, they are the "teachers" and we are their students  🙂

 

And to think my folks were impressed when I set the clock on the VCR for them   🙂 

jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: It's got to stop.

I agree with the parent thing BA.   No doubt.  I remember my daughter having a tough math assignment to do.  She couldn't get the answer.  Was sure no one could get it.  I looked at it, worked on it for a bit - and viola!! - the answer pops out.  Then you know what I did?  I tore the paper up, and said, "There - see - there is an answer, and you saw me do, now try and figure it out yourself".   Oh was she unhappy with me, as you can imagine.  

 

I don't believe in doing a students work for them.  And she did find the right answer after all.

 

Jen

jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: It's got to stop.

One other thought while we're on this BA. Parents that want to be a friend to their kids. Drives my crazy. The kids have enough friends - they only have one or two parents. Too many parents get too hung up on having to be a friend to their kids, that it makes it harder for them to make the tough decisions they have to as a parent.

Jen
Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: It's got to stop.

I do not know all the details of your school system and the costs but cutting costs and employees in schools can be a bad thing for your descendants.

 

I went to school when 1 room 8 classes were the normal.

Each community had their own little school and a board to look after it and was taxed accordingly.

 

The community where I grew up hired good young teachers paying a premium to do so many times and stocked the schools with good books and resources for the teachers to use.

 

Other boards not far away were all for keeping costs low which often entailed hiring an old teacher from the community who was way behind in knowledge and ambition.

 

When we were bussed to high school in the town nearby I had cousins and friends who could not keep up with the work.

Some quit school as soon as they could and got  a job driving a truck or something else which did not require an education.

Some struggled through to get their high school certificate with maybe a 'special commercial' tag to go work in an office.

The majority of those from my little school continued on to college or university.

 

I am sure my parents and their neighbours figured the education taxes they paid were a good investment as only a few families did not have most of their kids with at least a college education and this is in the 50ies and 60ies time period.

 

So be careful about what costs you cut or you may be back to clearing the snow from your own roads

Re: It's got to stop.

You have the option that has always been there to relieve yourself of those taxes if they are so oppressive as to potentially impoverish you.  There is no question that there would be some individual or entity who would gladly relieve you of them.

 

 

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: It's got to stop.

This says all that is needed said.

 

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Re: It's got to stop.

As I've said, by most comparative measures our rural consolidated school is OK although probably should be better.

 

But fwiw, my Indian friend (motel operator, if you can imagine that) has three kids who are doing well enough in the system to probably write their tickets wherever they want to go, and I'm not aware of any substantial supplementation beyond the system. Ergo...the school itself isn't all that limiting.

 

BTW a girl who's been in the college prep curriculum along with the eldest says that while it is too bad that valedictorian is off the table, it is a good thing to have somebody setting the pace.

 

 

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: It's got to stop.

I agree, but as a parent that has only raised high achieving kids, my Wife and I are humbly embarassed. Smiley Embarassed   

 

I have to say, once my kids got to high school, I was done helping them my brain was too dusty.   I think education will have to be reconfigured at some point, because information changes so rapidly these days, a 'old teacher" of age 30 may be obsolete.   The Dean at Drake University told me that when Generation Z reaches ago 30 there will be jobs of which 75% haven`t been identified as of yet.  Things are moving so fast.  My BiL is a bigwig with CVS, I casually mentioned they need robots to take the place of pharmacists..he says "we`re already THERE!".  Machines eliminate human mistakes, the only problem in the early stages is the techs need to be able to repair the machine on the spot, because when they go down a short amount of time, the prescriptions stack up.