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4wd
Senior Contributor

Re: Did a little search on leak detection

You call BA's thinking Common sense? ~I'd say he forgot about figuring how much of the tar sands crude it takes just to fill that 1k+ mile pipeline. If he thinks if you put 100,000 gallons in in Canada, you will get 100,000 gal out in the gulf of Mexico, he is wrong even if it don't leak. ~and if crude floats, then why didn't the skimmers work last year when trying to scoop up the sludge on top of the water in the BP disaster? Most of the stuff sank to the bottom of the sea, and it still is there.
4wd
Senior Contributor

Re: Did a little search on leak detection

It would depend on pressure, fluid viscosity, and size of rupture. ~~I have a high pressure nat gas pipeline running near a corner of my farm, and the maintenance supervisor told us all in a safety meeting that if a rupture occurred from a dozer or tile machine or whatever, that the force of escaping gas igniting would cause an explosion with a 1/4 mile radius of destruction. They fly the pipeline weekly, and also run an electronic pig thru it on a monthly basis looking for defects and potential weak spots. Still, they are very concerned about leaks. The know they have a god dam bomb burried under our farms!
hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

The overriding purpose for environmentalists to oppose Keystone is to slow or inhibit development of the oilsands. As I posted a few weeks ago, James Hansen says that further development is "game over" for the planet. It might be but I don't think it does anything about the 50% of world coal consumption that China currently accounts for. Those are decisions we've made, or chosen not to make, over the last 30 years. We can't go back now.

 

1) I don't think the lack of a pipeline is going to slow it down a lot. Only the long term price of oil or an overt political decision will. If the US doesn't take the oil China will. 

 

2) Particularly with Mexican oil production in terminal decline, North American production is a matter of national security to the US. However it should be noted that if you net/net on NA production, exports and imports you still come up considerably short of current consumption.  But in a pinch you could probably muddle through on 3-5 million bpd less.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Did a little search on leak detection

Hey 4WD, these`s "motion in the ocean" plus it`s salty and sedimenty, you could test this at home take a glass of water add salt and a little sand pour oil on top and shake it up, of course it would be mixed up.  But stop shaking the glass and oil goes to the top...physics my friend. Why would it be so hard to measure how much crude goes into and out of a pipeline? A combine yield monitor can tell you your yield ...no?  As I`ve said before there`s a segment of liberals that want high priced gasoline to force us to accept solar and other uneconomical green sources of energy.  4WD, have you ever tried to make a petulent kid to put on a pair of gloves?  They can contort their small hands in such a way that no glove will fit and that is exactly how these liberals that oppose the pipeline are acting...I oughta know all about it speaking as a former petulent kid Smiley Happy

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Did a little search on leak detection

Well crude oil ain`t gonna be expoding anytime soon.  I have a couple giant anhydrous tanks a mile from my place ...I don`t even want to speculate out loud about those, for fear of giving some bad people some really nasty ideas.

Pupdaddy
Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

Here's my take on the pipeline...take it or leave it.

 

I agree we need to build infrastructure in this country to supply our needs. But the main purpose of this pipeline looks to be pure profit for a company based in another country. If the oil extracted from these sands is useful...then "we" should be using it..not the people overseas. I would tell those interested in using the US as their avenue for profit..that the profit will have to be passed on to everyone whose property that pipeline crosses. In the US..we have to submit to pipeline projects because the pipeline is being installed for the greater good of the masses. In this case..it's benefitting a very specific entity..and they aren't even from this country. I don't know how excited the pipeline owners would be about having to share the profit.

 

As far as spillage. A new pipeline will probably be very safe for quite a few years. But there are examples of how much oil can be spilled from a pipeline in a very short time without detection. Last summer a pipeline burst in Michigan..and it put an estimated 800,000 gallons of oil in the Kalamazoo river before anyone could stop it. Sure there can be valves installed in the line....but it's not quite that simple. There is this thing called gravity...and it makes it very tricky to determine exactly how fast you can close a valve on a pipeline. If you were to close a valve in the middle of the line...the resulting suction from the oil flowing downstream can actually suck the pipeline together. I'm not too sure how they work valves on these pipelines...but it's a science that isn't as simple as you folks are making it sound. Locating the pipeline in Nebraska over an aquifer is probably doable....but you really have to have a need for for the oil to justify it.

 

All in all, I would support the pipeline...if it were terminated in a centrally located area...where we have constructed a new state of the art refinery that would increase the refining capacity in the U.S. If it's only being built to profit a single entity in Canada (And their stockholders..which most likely are Chinese)...I wouldn't support it.

 

4wd
Senior Contributor

Re: Did a little search on leak detection

Haha! Yeah, I was a petulant kid too. I remember some of my tricks I would play with my mother, but you know what--I think she knew what game I was playing all along, just let me play it to get a laugh on me! I do wish the reasons the president killed the pipeline were made public, though. ..It would end a lot of speculation
4wd
Senior Contributor

Re: Did a little search on leak detection

a-men. I hear ya. I hate to pull that stuff on for fear someone will stop me and say they smell the dangerous gasses and I am making them sick. May end up putting it on at night only, when they cannot see me.
Samnospam
Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

Why don't they put a refinery in the Dakota's?
Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

I was at a meeting, where they said there would be remotly controlled valves every so far (can't remember exactly how far apart, but 50 miles seems to pop to mind) and they would all shut simultaneously, by remote.  In case of them not closing remotely, there would be someone who could shut them off manually, within 45 minutes.

I agree, right now, if the pipeline were to go mid-country somewhere, so the fuel would be 'US only', i'd be all for it.  Right now, I still could go either way.