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BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

One thing about it Schurrbart, if we have the pipeline it will be a strategic supply for us.  If we need the oil we can send the European and Chinese ships back empty and keep the oil for ourselves.  This pipeline is a real no brainer, if your loyalties lie with the United States.

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

Greedy oil companies?
schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

Not unless we buy it and if Canada wants to sell to us.  It won't be our oil as it stands and the construction jobs will be temporary.

bikinkawboy
Veteran Contributor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

kraft t said he wished they were going through the other guy's farm (sarcastically I believe).  I honestly wish they were going through mine (again).  I've had two go through in recent years, one a natural gas pipeline (REX, USA) and then the Kinder-Morgan (Canadian) petroleum pipeline.  REX was a Three Stooges outfit and took forever, but the Canadians had their act together and paid very well, even for trees taken out and temporary fencing needed.  No problems with them at all as far as easments, damages or even paying for a ewe that lost a foot after the fencing contractor left wiring laying around.  I called the toll free number on a Friday, ended up getting the president after hours, told him what the deal was, an agent was there by Tuesday and on Friday the agent hand delivered a check.  I already had an existing pipeline through the place (Platte), so additional easments weren't that big of a deal.  Platte has always been more than fair when paying for crop damage when repairing the pipeline in the past.  I've always found pipeline land agents (the guys who deal with the landowners concerning pipeline repair damage payments, locating lines, etc) to be decent and fair guys, certainly not out to screw anyone over.  I can't say it's that way everywhere, but in north central Missouri you can't find any better or more fair guys to work with.    

bikinkawboy
Veteran Contributor

Re: Words from a former Nebraska Weed Commissioner

"No better than the oil companies are at cleaning up", anyone believing that needs to investigate things a little deeper.  I'm a soil conservation technician and I deal with pipelines all the time during construction.  Why do you think pipeline companies sponsor so many free breakfasts all over the country concerning using One Call, locate requests, pipeline safety, etc?  The financial liability incurred from even a purely accidential, nobody's fault leak is staggering.  They encourage us to promote safety meetings, pay for free meals and give out some really, really nice knick knacks like top quality leather gloves, tape emasures, etc. 

 

Anytime there is a leak, you can bet the state department of natural resources is going to make out like a bandit financially considering the fines and penalties they assess.  The clean up costs are mind blowing as well.  Several years ago a petroleum pipeline was pressure testing the line and an old pipe on my neighbor sprung a tiny leak.  I belive the total crude leaked was far less than 10 barrels.  It looked like the circus had come to town with all the people and trucks there.  They were out there with absorbent pads that looked like Pampers soaking up any little puddle of oil, then excavated all of the contaminated soil and replaced it with clean fill dirt (topsoil).  And even though the field was in CRP, they paid some pretty handsome damages to the landowner.

 

I know the Platte & Kinder Morgan land agents.  If you accidentially skin up the protective coating on a pipeline and tell them about it, they give you a verbal reprimand for not calling  One Call and fix it without any charge.  If you skin it up, don't notify them and they find it, you're looking at a minumum $50,000 bill for repairs and they aren't making money off of you.  If you skin up the pipe coating and years later it springs a leak or blows up, you might as well sell the farm and go into hiding because you'll exceed your liability insurance limit in a heartbeat.  That's when state DNRs have a field day, assessing the pipeline operator millions of dollars in fines.

 

I don't know everything, but I do know that not all pipeline companies operate slip shod like BP did in the gulf, even BPs pipeline division.  There's a world of difference between the two.        

GreaTOne_65
Senior Contributor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

I cannot believe your that naive? What you gonna do, BA, drill a hole in it and siphon off a bunch?

GreaTOne_65
Senior Contributor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

Let's pose another question here, if this such a hot d amned, money makin' idea, why do they want to pump that sludge down a pipeline. Why don't they build refineries up there, then pump the REFINED PRODUCT down a pipeline? As I understand this crap, it's got tons of toxic chemicals in it, let them take care of that sh!t up there on there own ground. No offense, Canuck.

 

One other thing, here folks, who among you are willing to believe, ANY THING, the Oil Company's promises?? All they are concerned with is their bottom line, any thing else is going to be YOUR tough luck if it all goes to sh!t!

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re BTW 3020

Solyndra was signed onto by GW Bush. Not Obama.

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

I'm all for fixing roads, bridges, etc. It needs to be done, and would employ people from the iron mines, to bridge builders, and keep the money spent within the USA. I would even be in favor of using all US sourced raw materials if possible/practical.
bikinkawboy
Veteran Contributor

Re: Keystone looks to be dead

Spoiler
 

Here's a few thing I see.  Why do they want to send the oil to Texas?  That's where much of the US refining capacity is.  As for building a new refinery in the Dakotas, forget that.  Because of the environmental movement and the resulting regulations, there hasn't been a new refinery built in the US for over 30 years and highly unlikely those save nature folks will suddenly relent in their efforts.

 

The US domestic production is approximately 25% of the oil consumed, meaning we must import oil to continue operating.  When applied to ag, that means fuel for trucks, tractors, barges, anhydrous ammonia and all the related N products produced using anhydrous, pesticides, tires, propane, plastics like baler twine, JD cab roofs, silage covers, etc , baler belts, pharmecuticals and on and on.  All that stuff is either made directly from or uses crude oil in one form or another.  Without imported oil, the US economy would grind to a halt in a matter of days.

 

Since the US must import oil, isn't it in our best interests to import it form Canada rather than the Middle East?  Other than those in Quebec prefering to speak French, the majority of Americans and Canadians are alike, same language, religion, values and so on.   Even the Inuit Indians of the Arctic region are just alike whether they are Canadian or Alaskan.  Our second largest supplier of oil is Saudia Arabia, a place where women are forbidden to drive cars, a woman can't go out in public unless escorted by a man, human rights are scrictly controlled, you better be Muslin if you know what's good for you and countless other dehumanizing customs.  If I'm going to give my money to someone, I'd rather it be someone who would fight for me (Canada) rather than against me (Muslin nations).

 

Most crude oil pipelines run 250-500 psi, meaning that even a tiny hole is going to leak a lot of oil.  Natural gas pipelines usually run 750-1,000 psi.  Crude oil spilled is harmful to the environment and when in water can cause huge fish kills, no doubt about that.  But so is when your livestock lagoon leaks or overflows and causes a huge fish kill.  Poop or oil, same result.  Large pipelines operators (not city pipelines) have a very good safety record.  When leaks or spills do occur, the greatest number occur because a heavy equipment operator or the lowly farmer damaged the pipe.  A saw a huge hole torn in a petroleum pipeline by a farmer subsoiling with his 4 wheel drive.  The line had even been  marked for him, but he wanted to make "just one more pass".  I think that last pass cost his insurance carrier $1.2 million and I bet they didn't renew his policy.  Cars don't kill people, people driving cars and having accidents do.  Same way with pipelines, by far the majority of pipeline spills or explosions are caused by people damaging the pipe.