@gough whitlam wrote:
Don't you mean people who 'believe' there is no God? We are each entitled to our own beliefs, but I have yet to have any kind of proof that there is no God.
A clever little play on words there comrade but it won't cut the mustard with me. The proof I have there is no god is the fact, you have no proof there is. Have you ever seen god? Have you ever witnessed a miracle? Do you really believe in immaculate conceptions, if you have children of your own? The sad part about it you know in your heart of hearts, there is no god but your silly religious beliefs and the threats from the church allow you take out some insurance for getting to heaven, as long as you put the money on the plate.
One step further, why would you "believe" there is a god when some plain english research can reveal, to you like it has to me, you can KNOW there is no god.
I see your hideous beliefs as a definate attempt to denegrate the intelligence of the human race, when it comes to the god myth. It is the people who do not belief who should get the most respect from a god, if there were one, as it is they who have used their brain for what it was given to them, if there was a god, which of course there isn't. Your brain would appear to be anaesthetised by the church.
The most widely cited descriptions of the events reported at Fatima are taken from the writings of John De Marchi, an Italian Catholic priest and researcher. De Marchi spent seven years in Fátima, from 1943 to 1950, conducting original research and interviewing the principals at undisturbed length.[15] In The Immaculate Heart, published in 1952, De Marchi reports that, "[t]heir ranks (those present on 13 October) included believers and non-believers, pious old ladies and scoffing young men. Hundreds, from these mixed categories, have given formal testimony. Reports do vary; impressions are in minor details confused, but none to our knowledge has directly denied the visible prodigy of the sun."[16]
Some of the witness statements follow below. They are taken from John De Marchi's several books on the matter.
- "Before the astonished eyes of the crowd, whose aspect was biblical as they stood bare-headed, eagerly searching the sky, the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic laws — the sun 'danced' according to the typical expression of the people." ― Avelino de Almeida,[17] writing for O Século O Século was Portugal's most widely circulated[18] and influential newspaper. It was pro-government and anti-clerical at the time.[17] Almeida's previous articles had been to satirize the previously reported events at Fátima.[7]
- "The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceedingly swift and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat." ― Dr. Domingos Pinto Coelho, writing for the newspaper Ordem.[19]
- "...The silver sun, enveloped in the same gauzy grey light, was seen to whirl and turn in the circle of broken clouds... The light turned a beautiful blue, as if it had come through the stained-glass windows of a cathedral, and spread itself over the people who knelt with outstretched hands... people wept and prayed with uncovered heads, in the presence of a miracle they had awaited. The seconds seemed like hours, so vivid were they." ― Reporter for the Lisbon newspaper O Dia.[16]
- "The sun's disc did not remain immobile. This was not the sparkling of a heavenly body, for it spun round on itself in a mad whirl, when suddenly a clamor was heard from all the people. The sun, whirling, seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge fiery weight. The sensation during those moments was terrible." — Dr. Almeida Garrett, Professor of Natural Sciences at Coimbra University.[20]
- "As if like a bolt from the blue, the clouds were wrenched apart, and the sun at its zenith appeared in all its splendor. It began to revolve vertiginously on its axis, like the most magnificent firewheel that could be imagined, taking on all the colors of the rainbow and sending forth multicolored flashes of light, producing the most astounding effect. This sublime and incomparable spectacle, which was repeated three distinct times, lasted for about ten minutes. The immense multitude, overcome by the evidence of such a tremendous prodigy, threw themselves on their knees." ― Dr. Manuel Formigão, a professor at the seminary at Santarém, and a priest. He had attended the September visitation, and examined and questioned the children in detail several times.[20]
- "I feel incapable of describing what I saw. I looked fixedly at the sun, which seemed pale and did not hurt my eyes. Looking like a ball of snow, revolving on itself, it suddenly seemed to come down in a zig-zag, menacing the earth. Terrified, I ran and hid myself among the people, who were weeping and expecting the end of the world at any moment." — Rev. Joaquim Lourenço, describing his boyhood experience in Alburitel, eighteen kilometers from Fatima.[21]
- "On that day of October 13, 1917, without remembering the predictions of the children, I was enchanted by a remarkable spectacle in the sky of a kind I had never seen before. I saw it from this veranda..." — Portuguese poet Afonso Lopes Vieira.[22]
According to De Marchi, "Engineers that have studied the case reckoned that an incredible amount of energy would have been necessary to dry up those pools of water that had formed on the field in a few minutes as it was reported by witnesses."[6]
@Nebrfarmr wrote:
That is true, Red. For example, I know a guy who went to prison. He has family members in our Church. Although no one can remember that he was ever a member, or ever set foot in the door, he still listed his religion as to being of the Christian Church. I know this, because the Church has some people who go to the prison with care packages once in a while, and put the names of some of the people they visit on the prayer list. I wonder if they sometimes don't put 'christian' as their religion, to get the cookies and candy twice a month, as much as anything. On the other hand, it is maybe OK, because that has opened the door, so to speak, to allow the workers to help reform a few.
Me not Red, Neb.
@man of steel wrote:
@Nebrfarmr wrote:
That is true, Red. For example, I know a guy who went to prison. He has family members in our Church. Although no one can remember that he was ever a member, or ever set foot in the door, he still listed his religion as to being of the Christian Church. I know this, because the Church has some people who go to the prison with care packages once in a while, and put the names of some of the people they visit on the prayer list. I wonder if they sometimes don't put 'christian' as their religion, to get the cookies and candy twice a month, as much as anything. On the other hand, it is maybe OK, because that has opened the door, so to speak, to allow the workers to help reform a few.
Me not Red, Neb.
Prison is a prime recruiting ground for islamist extremist.
