Matt Taibbi on Citibank criminals

[hardnox604008]

I don't know that I'm particularly outraged about farm subsidies other than as an example of horrible public policy and the fact that beeyatching about de gummint at an ag site is a bit ridiculous, if you think about it., agriculture is the most socialist industry in the country with the possible exception of Fed primary dealer banking.

And hey, you cold have all marched on Washington and demanded that de gummint not throw F2F under the bus and double down on permanent payments when things got a little tough.

Bottom line- job 1 for whatever administration followed GWB and the financial crisis needed to be to break up the too big to fail institutions with a secondary objective being to prosecute financial crimes that had been committed.

That didn't happen, take your pcik why depending on your political leanings- whether they felt that the severe short term dislocation associated with doing that  would have been too much to bear- politically of systemically, or whether you believe they're just in the pocket of Wall Street, I don't know.

At the bottom botttom line- we still have TBTF institions and yes, we will have to bail them out next time too. Because the are TBTF- whether folks at the REpublican Jerry Springer roadshow want to pretend otherwise or not.

In the category of constantly pondering the meaning behind things that don't make sense, I'm at least giving reasonable consideration to the notion that the Fed wants to have something like 80% of deposits corraled in the ten biggest banks, and something like 95% of the OTC derivatives, because in the worst case they can press a button and make it OK. A lot harder to chase it all down at a thousand regional and local banks.

And the foks who are raking it in are merely smart and lucky enough to have gotten themselves in a position where the PTB need to tolerate their activities.

[Red Steele]

I think of GW Bush signing over the original bailout packages, after being told that he had to do so to avoid a collapse of our system, and how he at least asked that someone tell him later how we got to the point where any institution or business in America was deemed "too big to fail".

Seems like much more insight and reflection than the current bozo is capable of mustering.

I sincerely believe that McCain could not have been bad as Obama is, but that is wee praise.

Wanting accountability is neither a red or a blue issue in my book.

[kraft-t]

The social sh!t is not what has made our 14 trillion debt. Health care to the common american is worth more than a war in Iraq or afghanistan.

[kraft-t]

You're painting with a mighty wide brush./ Debt writeoffs are really easy to get. File a chapter 7 bankruptsy and you will be soon living in clover.

I don't know other peoples circumstances so I don't know any BTO that got wrote off in the 80's that are big farmers today. Yes some were forced into bankruptsy but that doesn't mean they are destitute forever. In some cases, families that had no obligation to pay off their sons debt, came in and gave their son a fresh start. Like you might do if your son had a setback.

Meanwhile alot of foreclosures were a product of declining assets. People that are no longer credit worthy for operating capital. Failing to get operating capital pretty much leaves you with no choice but to default.

I really can't understand why some people want bankruptsy to be a permanent condition. Why wouldn't you want redemption for the failed business and want them to become prosperous again?  Don't like the competition, evaluate your own management practices. It's pitiful to blame your lack of success on the failures of the 80's

Do you note any responsibility in that local bank having loaned so much money to a too big to fail borrower. DFepositors had the benefit of FDIC insurance and would not suffer great losses from one customers bankruptsy. Stochholders could suffer big losses but not depositors

Perhaps you should be signing $350 per acre leases. With gross sales well over a $1000 per acre, the land is probably worth that much.

[BA Deere]

I do not believe that "bankruptcy should be permentent", by the same token a farmer whose greed got the better of him should not have had $1 million in debt forgiven(alot of money in the 80`s) AND then go home that very afternoon after screwing the bank and taxpayers call to have a new home put up, go to the Ford dealer and order a brand new 1988 pickup AND buy a neighboring 240 for $700/acre.  That is bullsh!t, he should have started out from square one like a Negro slave, 40 acres and a mule.  That "Young Tiger" that is 60 today never had to pay for his sins.  Quick story true but I`ll change a little to protect the guilty: A rich farmer born with a silver spoon and married very well(crooked cattle buyer`s daughter) he was born on home plate, plunged into everything bought farms hand over fist, first cattle confinement in the area went broke in 1980(before write offs)  Another young tiger plunger in about the same situation was able to lie,cheat and steal to keep going until the mid 80`s debt write offs.  The guy that went broke in 1980 died working in a factory.  The young tiger that kept going and got the write-off is rich as hell today.

[Red Steele]

those of us that plan to pay off our debts use prudent business risk/reward evaluations and don't count on government bailouts. We also structure our affairs to take care of our parents without government assistance. We buy health insurance to cover our risks when it comes to medical issues, too. Although, I am not going to condemn anyone that is forced into bankruptcy due to an illness. I just have a problem with the deadbeats that are there by choice.

Good enough evaluation of our management skills? What we don't like are blowhards that don't use proper management analysis making the playing field tougher for everyone else, like back in the 70's and 80's, and probably now. Once the tide goes out again, as it undoubtably will, we will find out once again who has been skinny dipping (paraphrasing Warren "Government Handout" Buffet).

[BA Deere]

I`m not saying take the milk out of the baby`s mouth, I`m saying there`s a big divide on social issues that would prevent someone with an actual ability to solve economic problems from getting elected.  To make an example that perhaps you`d understand let`s say Paul Krugman and Robert Reich, given free reign and enough time could solve the economic mess.  They couldn`t elected because of their probable stand on gays and Mexicans and stuff.  So what I am saying is take gays Mexican and stuff off the table for a few years, none of it is going anywhere, it`ll be there to argue about in the future.  But we need to get to the future in the first place.  It is pretty hopeless though, I offered this fig leaf and dove to Bruce, I imagine he doesn`t want to even consider compromise he thinks"Why the hell would I agree the put social issues on a shelve for a few years??? Everythings going my way anyway, if the Dems lose nothing will be rolled back and when the Dems get it again in 4 yrs we`ll just take more ground."  Someone named "Mitewt" will be the next Prez, Repubs will hold the House gain just a little in the Senate.  Obama`s last month in office he will give away whatever is left of the store and leave quite a tab for Pres.Mitewt.  GTO will write blogs "Har Har Har And I thought the sky would be bluer and the water clearer if the Republickcan`ts got in office Har har Har!!"  ....It`s obvious, not even the "smart" liberals want to consider a sensible compromise...Last one to leave, please turn out the lights.

[kraft-t]

There have been sensible compromises on the table ever since Obama took office. You guys refused to play well with democrats and now you don't like hardball when the democrats fight back. We were supposed to succumb to you every demand and dems finally woke up.

You wanted hardball, you got hardball. Now be a man and take it. There is never a good time to deal with social issues. You are always against it. There is never a good time for tax increases because you are always against. Any proposed tax legislation by republicans is always revenue neutral. WE don't need neutral revenues , we need increased revenues.

Unless their is a complete capitulation by the GOP, lets let the election of 2012 sort them out. Dems may lose then but if we give in to you we will lose now. I can wait.

[kraft-t]

How do you know the exact details of someone elses finances. We had several go broke during the 80's and I don't know the financial details of any of them. Plus the notion that i guy went from bankruptsy court and ordered a new house is simply not beleivable. Who would he borrow money from without a guarantee. If aloan guarantee came from an outsider or a family member, that would be koshar. The guarenter would have no obligation to satisfy previous debt nor would he offer a guarantee to anyone tied to previous obligations.

I doubt very much that you know your neighbors a business and you have either a vigorous imagination or access to the local rumor mill. In any case, your spend thrift neighbor is not responsible for you success or the lack there of.

Those of us that paid off our debt instead of defaulting, did so because we could and we shouldn't expect a write off if we don't need one.

[bruce MN]

You say:

"The young tiger that kept going and got the write-off is rich as hell today. "

That would be, in teh greater picture, exactly what happened with the Wall Street firms and banks that got bailed out. No humility what soever. It's a hell of an analogy. Thanks for planting the see dfor it. Bonuses...bigger than before...taking teth money right back to the securitization and deriviatives table. And we get stagnation.

You are starting to sorta, kinda, somewhat catch on. Keep thinking linerally on this and there could be some point of convergance ahead:

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/11/how-2008-radicalized-us-all

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2011/11/28/how_the_fed_s_generosity_made_13_billion_for_america_...

Likwe some writer said in another article that I believe bart linked here recently..."This is somethign that the Tea Party and OWS should be able to come to agreement on".