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Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate

Yea, it'll take care of itself.  Take out monetary games, trading scams, and oil will gradually price itself out of the market.  Peak oilers believe that fields drop in production so precepitously that price shocks will be sudden, but new finds should help even that out even if those finds are more expensive to produce.

Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate

They'll probably need to keep a little carbon on hand to use in order to suddenly manufacture and assemble whatever it is that the futuristic devices that you seem confident in that will be needed to exploit whatever the magical new source of energy might be.

 

Do you have any idea of how inhernetly...ridiculously.... contradictory and empty minded your premise is? Any at all?

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate

It has always been my understanding that there is STILL a lot of oil and much of it has not been discovered.  Of course, the amount to yet be discovered is all projecture but the amount that is known may not be feasible at the present time financially BUT as technology grows and oil supplies become lower and the price goes up, THEN it becomes feasible.  Example, in the 1800s here in Arizona, there was a gold strike and a town was built using lower grade gold ore rock for most of the buildings because the cost of that gold was not worth the added expense.  The price of gold increased and that particular high grade ore declined to the point that the entire town was dismantled and fed into the crushers because now it was cost effective to recover that ore.  I believe that is what is being said.  I also think it is totally disgraceful how BOTH sides tie something very distasteful to something that must pass to get it passed.  The "detain Americans" was added to the defense bill and now this has been added to the payroll tax bill.

wgjerde768071
Senior Contributor

Oil will be exported anyway so how does it benefit the US

I read a recent article in the WSJ that said oil and probably refined gas will be exported for the next ten years from the refinery in the Southern US. You are right when you said the oil would be exported one way or another. So let them build the refineries in Canada.  The US refineries want the oil sands to refine and export  to China and other parts unknown. This oil is not for US consumption.  Is that a good reason to risk polluting this aquifer.. I used to dig up tanks at gas stations and I will tell you they all leaked even the new ones. The worst one was a tank that had been the ground for 3 months. We pumped free product off the hole in that one. The point. This pipeline will leak. You are building over sand. What happen to oil that is spilled on sand.  It will go right into the aquifer

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate


@bruce MN wrote:

They'll probably need to keep a little carbon on hand to use in order to suddenly manufacture and assemble whatever it is that the futuristic devices that you seem confident in that will be needed to exploit whatever the magical new source of energy might be.

 

Do you have any idea of how inhernetly...ridiculously.... contradictory and empty minded your premise is? Any at all?


No, I don't.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: Oil will be exported anyway so how does it benefit the US

This oil is for the highest bidder. Just like our corn.

Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate

Agreed. But, yet, have reasonable regulations and enforce them. We've just gone through 30 years of govt. making regulations ranging from soft to ridiculously overkilling and then leaving it to the industries to self-enfoce. And if and when there are serious situations that force the government to attemtp to enforce, it's always after the fact..after peole are dead and ecosystems and basic proerty and infrastructure are bespoiled if not decimated..Gulf oil, mining accidents,  groundater pollution caused by promisciously carried out fracking, etc, etc,  Johnstown flood after Johnstown flood.

 

Leaves a culture where everybody is frustrated and is forced to take extreme positions. On the enviro side, which  for all practical purposes is financially powerless so has to become highly rhetorical and beg for coverage of what they have to say, to the larger community of Kochs and BPs etal that has turned rightous indignation into an art form. and has pockets stuffed with bought and paid for politicians and public officials. And to be unapologetically political, since the Clinton and Bush administrations been supplying the staffing for the regulatory agencies.

 

Did you see the furor that flared up when the current head of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission had the nerve to attemept to actually do his job ? Nothing all that controversial Seems hejust showed up and actually had the nerve tosay something and the industry blew  gasket? (I know...horrible pun when talking about nuke) They were used to having an agnecy head who shoed up, kept quiet, drew his paycheck and let them run things as they pleased.

Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate

We knew that. Sorry for being impulsive. Just hit me quick as needed pointed out.

 

Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate

Actually doubt that is the case but it is exactly what we're going to do- in terms of letting the "market" take care of energy issues.

 

Although since we're definitely not going to quit the monetary games I gues we'll have that to blame when the thing craps out.

 

One of the cable news outfits had an interview with a guy sitting at the Machine Shed restaurant  outside of Davenport yesterday, answering about who he was favoring for the caucuses.

 

He said he was leaning toward Bachmann becasue she appeared to be the most stalwart on debt issues and he didn't want to leave all this debt to his children and grandchildren.

 

Personally I'm a lot more worried about not leaving any oil to them. Money is pretty much infinite, fossil fuels aren't.

Re: NASA's Hansen- Keystone XL would be "game over" for climate

At Peak Oil, whether that is before or behind us, there is still a **bleep** load of oil. Problem is that the nearest, easiset, cheapest stuff is all gone and even the other stuff will decline over time.

 

And it is for the most part lower EROEI stuff which means when you are at nominal peak you are way beyond net peak.