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Veteran Advisor

Re: Need more guns!!

A gun, used properly, is also quite safe.   I have never seen a gun go off by itself.

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Veteran Advisor

My first link

I did a yahoo search, on the question 'does gun ownership increase suicide rates', and this was my first link:

 

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvsuic.html

 

 

The full body of relevant studies indicates that firearm availability measures are significantly and positively associated with rates of firearm suicide, but have no significant association with rates of totalsuicide.

Of thirteen studies, nine found a significant association between gun levels and rates of gun suicide, but only one found a significant association between gun levels and rates of totalsuicides. The only study to find a measure of "gun availability" significantly associated with total suicide...used a measure of gun availability known to be invalid.

This pattern of results supports the view that where guns are less common, there is complete substitution of other methods of suicide, and that, while gun levels influence the choice of suicide method, they have no effect on the number of people who die in suicides.

As further evidence that gun ownership is not correlated with total suicide rates see international violent death rate table. For example, Japan, where gun ownership is extremely low (less than 1% of households), total suicide is higher than in a high-gun ownership country like the United States.

From 1972 to 1995 the per capita gun stock in the U. S. increased by more than 50%. Gary Kleck in Targeting Guns (p 265) comments on this huge increase: "This change might be viewed as a sort of inadvertent natural experiment, in which Americans launched a massive and unprecedented civilian armaments program, probably the largest in world history. During this same period, the U.S. suicide rate was virtually constant, fluctuating only slightly within the narrow range from 11.8 to 13.0 suicides per 100,000 population...At most...this huge increase in the gun stock might have caused a mild increase in the percentage of suicides committed with guns, which shifted from 53.3 in 1972 to 60.3 in 1994, and thus a mild corresponding increase in the gun suicide rate." (See gun supply chart).

In 1972 the suicide rate was 11.9 per 100,000. After this "arms build-up" the total suicide rate remained unchanged at 11.9 in 1995.

 

 

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Senior Contributor

Re: My first link


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

I did a yahoo search, on the question 'does gun ownership increase suicide rates', and this was my first link:

 

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvsuic.html

  


There are other studies that question the "complete substitution of other methods of suicide"

 

Different countries have different suicide rates for reasons other than availability of guns.

My link pointed out that guns in a home increased the suicide death rate compared to homes without a gun.

There are other contributing factors but this study isolates homes with guns and shows a higher rate in those homes.

 

the presence of guns in the home was associated with an increased risk of suicide among women as well as men, across all age strata, and among whites (Table 5Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership, According to Subgroup.). No subgroup analysis limited to nonwhites could be performed. Restricting the analysis to matched pairs with data obtained from case proxies who lived in the home of the victim verified the association. Another analysis restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm. Suicide by any other means was not significantly associated with the presence of a gun in the home (Table 5).

Subsequent analyses revealed that case subjects in households with loaded firearms (odds ratio, 9.2) were at higher risk of suicide than those in homes with unloaded firearms (odds ratio, 3.3), as compared with those in homes with no guns (Table 6)

Risk of Suicide in the Home in Relation to Various Patterns of Gun Ownership.). Households with guns kept in an unlocked place were associated with a higher risk of suicide than households in which guns were kept in a locked place, and homes with one or more handguns were associated with a risk of suicide almost twice as high as that in homes containing only long guns. However, homes with guns of any sort were associated with a significantly higher risk of suicide than homes without guns, regardless of the type of gun or the method of storage.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199208133270705#t=article+Conclusions.

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Senior Contributor

Re: Need more guns!!


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

A gun, used properly, is also quite safe.   I have never seen a gun go off by itself.


Not many guns go off by themselves but quite a few guns 'go off' and result in the death of someone in the US compared to other countries that have fewer guns.

Senior Contributor

Re: Need more guns!!


@Taylor ECIL wrote:

A toaster has a usefull purpose almost everyday and is quite safe unless someone really tries to overcome the safties on it.

 

You haven't been around to many guns have you? All guns I have are quite safe unless you really try to overcome the safties on them.


But the point is many times guns are used to kill someone while few toasters are used that way.

Safety or not.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: My first link

I keep my guns, locked in a gun cabinet. 

There is NO reason, to not have your guns stored in a safe manner.  Even if you are destitute, you can get trigger locks, for free, from the Sheriff, for any and all guns you own.

To blame a gun, because of careless storage on the part of an idiotic owner, goes back to blaming the toaster for shocking you, because it had a frayed cord, or whatever.

One thing, I must ask about your source, one that I found when I was looking up links, is the length of time, the gun was owned.  I can't find the link right now, but if you take away the guns bought more than a month before the suicde, (if I remember right) a home with locked guns, is as safe as one without.  They speculate, that those people were contemplating suicide, and bought the gun for it (but have no concrete proof, because you can't ask the deceased too many questions).

 

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Need more guns!!

In the link I posted above, the US, and Japan, have nearly identical rates for 'violent death', (I belive that is a combination of murder, manslaughter, and suicides). 

They are no where nearly identical, in gun ownership.

 

Austria, Finland and France, are notably higher, in this category, than the US.

 

I may or may not be right, but I still say that the gun is simply an efficent 'tool' used by thugs, to do thuggish things.  Remove the guns (like in Japan) and they simply seek out the next best way to do it.  Eliminate the thugs, and whether or not guns are around, doesn't matter (like in Kennesaw, Georgia).

 

Oh, here is the link to the chart listing the countries by rate of violent deaths.  I stopped when I got down to Canada, the chart actually goes a bit farther.   Full article here:  http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html

 

 

International Violent Death Rate Table (Death rates are per 100,000)

Country Year Population Total Death Total Homicide Firearm Homicide Total Suicide Firearm Suicide % Households With Guns
Estonia 1994 1,499,257 70.76 28.21 8.07 40.95 3.13 n/a
Hungary 1994 10,245,677 39.01 3.53 0.23 35.38 0.88 n/a
Slovenia 1994 1,989,477 33.37 2.01 0.35 31.16 2.51 n/a
Finland1 1994 5,088,333 30.72 3.24 0.86 27.26 5.78 23.2
Brazil 1993 160,737,000 25.34 19.04 10.58 3.46 0.73 n/a
Denmark 1993 5,189,378 23.46 1.21 0.23 22.13 2.25 n/a
Austria 1994 8,029,717 23.36 1.17 0.42 22.12 4.06 n/a
Switzerland2 1994 7,021,000 22.80 1.32 0.58 21.28 5.61 27.2
France 1994 57,915,450 22.67 1.12 0.44 20.79 5.14 22.6
Mexico 1994 90,011,259 21.74 17.58 9.88 2.89 0.91 n/a
Belgium 1990 9,967,387 20.77 1.41 0.60 19.04 2.56 16.6
Portugal 1994 5,138,600 18.95 2.98 1.28 14.83 1.28 n/a
United States3 1993 257,783,004 18.57 5.70 3.72 12.06 7.35 39.0
Japan 1994 124,069,000 17.34 0.62 0.02 16.72 0.04 n/a
Sweden 1993 8,718,571 17.12 1.30 0.18 15.75 2.09 15.1
Germany4 1994 81,338,093 17.00 1.17 0.22 15.64 1.17 8.9
Taiwan5 1996 21,979,444 15.00 8.12 0.97 6.88 0.12 n/a
Singapore 1994 2,930,200 15.77 1.71 0.07 14.06 0.17 n/a
Canada 1992 28,120,065 15.64 2.16 0.76
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Veteran Advisor

Re: Need more guns!!

I understand what you are saying, that the gun is more deadly, but instead of arguing about what tools the criminals use, why not concentrate on getting the criminals off the street?

 

For example over half of violent felons, are repeat offenders, and the bulk of crimes, are committed by a small minority of the criminals.  What if we agree, to get after that 6% (of criminals) that yahoo! answers say commit 70% of crime?

If we could get crime reduced by 70%, would we even be having the argument, over guns vs. crowbars. 

My thoughts (argument or whatever) is that if all the effort that both sides put, over arguing whether guns are good, or bad, would be spent, on catching criminals, it would do more good, overall for the country.

 

 

How many criminals in the US are repeat offenders?


Rate This Answer

 

While actual numbers vary, about 56% of violent felons are repeat offenders & 6% of criminals in the US commit 70% of crimes. ChaCha 24/7!

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Senior Contributor

Re: Need more guns!!

Here is another site with a graphic to show violent deaths by country.

http://violentdeathproject.com

 

Dated July 2011

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Senior Contributor

Re: Need more guns!!

Not sure the number of 'repeat offenders' is a good category to consider unless you also note that you have a lot more 'criminals' on the street since your country jails a lot more people.

 

http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php?area=all&category=wb_poprate

USA ranked #1    730 per 100,000

Cuba ranked #7    510

UK    ranked #92   154

Australia       #113   129

China             #123   121

Iraq              #130   115

Canada           #131   114

France           #146   102

 

Just seems you will have more ex convicts around when you jail so many.

So maybe the solution is to not jail so many and then you will not have as many 'repeat offenders'.