No abortion allowed, woman dies

[GoredHusker]

My disturbence is over how the initial thread started with these words:  I am sure this is what some 'god' wanted.  You even admit she "might" have survived if given the abortion sooner.  It's everyone's right whether they believe in God or they do not.  I choose to believe.  We don't know whether she would have survived or not.  I could easily start a thread about one of the women who died following complications due to an abortion and then claim God punished them.  I don't believe it works this way, and it rubs me a bit wrong when people try to rub us believers nose in it.  Again, I'm pro choice.  Why can't people leave other peoples religious beliefs out of it?    

[Canuck_2]

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@Nebrfarmr wrote:

http://jaxchristian.com/news/breaking-news/1537-mother-dies-after-abortion-at-planned-parenthood

Why so worked up, about something that doesn't happen here in the US, when things like this are?
Not that it isn't a tragedy, but the last time I checked, we don't live in Ireland.

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First there is a risk to any medical procedure.

1 death from an abortion which was obviously not done correctly is not a great % if you listen to what some on here claim are them number of abortions in the USA.

If you do not think it can happen in the US then you have not kept up on the news,

Women in a similar situation to the woman in Ireland have had to leave a religious hospital to seek help from a non religious hospital.

Others have been subjected to unnecessary test and delays in treatment because of the religious 'beliefs' of some hospitals.

All of these put the womans life at risk even if none die.

One doctor in the study reported several instances of potentially fatal tubal ruptures in patients with ectopic pregnancies at her Catholic-affiliated hospital.  She said that her hospital subjected patients with ectopic pregnancies to unnecessary delays in treatment, despite patients’ exhibiting serious symptoms indicating that a tubal rupture was possible.  These patients, therefore, were denied emergency care to which they were legally entitled.

In some of the miscarriage cases described in the Ibis Study, the standard of care also required immediate treatment. Yet doctors practicing at Catholic-affiliated hospitals were forced to delay treatment while performing medically unnecessary tests.  Even though these miscarriages were inevitable, and no medical treatment was available to save the fetus, some patients were transferred because doctors were required to wait until there was no longer a fetal heartbeat to provide the needed medical care. This delay subjected these patients to further risks of hemorrhage and infection and could have violated their right to receive emergency medical treatment under federal law.

http://www.nwlc.org/press-release/womens-health-and-lives-risk-due-religious-restrictions-hospitals-...

[Canuck_2]

Read some of the stroies about this womans death and I do not think there is any doubt that her chances of survival would have been much better if the miscarrying fetus had been aborted sooner giving her body a chance to clear the remnants and get ahead f the infection which resulted in her death.

I am not one to advocate an abortion for little to no reason however the example in Ireland is the other extreme from abortion for anyone who asks.

That policy, which is in effect in religious hospitals in the US as well, puts the womans health at risk because of the delay in taking action to give the care that is required in that circumstance.

As for increased cancer risk I understand there is increased cancer risk for a number of things like birth control, smoking etc.

Risks are there in what ever a person does but should be considered if there is no good reason for an abortion.

In cases of miscarriage the abortion is happening for natural reasons and only needs medical care to lesson the risks to the woman.

[Canuck_2]

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@GoredHusker wrote:

My disturbence is over how the initial thread started with these words:  I am sure this is what some 'god' wanted.  You even admit she "might" have survived if given the abortion sooner.  It's everyone's right whether they believe in God or they do not.  I choose to believe.  We don't know whether she would have survived or not.  I could easily start a thread about one of the women who died following complications due to an abortion and then claim God punished them.  I don't believe it works this way, and it rubs me a bit wrong when people try to rub us believers nose in it.  Again, I'm pro choice.  Why can't people leave other peoples religious beliefs out of it?    

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The point about this god involved in this tragic story is the woman did not 'believe' in the god which the Irish hospital claimed would not allow them to give her treatment in a timely manner.

If believers in this 'god' wish to risk their lives or the lives of their loved ones then that is on their shoulders but this woman was put at risk because of what someone else 'believed' and not given timely care which modern medicine is able to give.

Religion is the reason this story came about so the mention of this 'god' is necessary to tell the whole story.

Ignoring the bad things that come from religious 'beliefs' in old stories instead of using the knowlege and ability that modern medicine has would only make this tragic outcome worse.

[Nebrfarmr]

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@Canuck_2 wrote:

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@Nebrfarmr wrote:

http://jaxchristian.com/news/breaking-news/1537-mother-dies-after-abortion-at-planned-parenthood

Why so worked up, about something that doesn't happen here in the US, when things like this are?
Not that it isn't a tragedy, but the last time I checked, we don't live in Ireland.

---

First there is a risk to any medical procedure.

1 death from an abortion which was obviously not done correctly is not a great % if you listen to what some on here claim are them number of abortions in the USA.

If you do not think it can happen in the US then you have not kept up on the news,

Women in a similar situation to the woman in Ireland have had to leave a religious hospital to seek help from a non religious hospital.

Others have been subjected to unnecessary test and delays in treatment because of the religious 'beliefs' of some hospitals.

All of these put the womans life at risk even if none die.

One doctor in the study reported several instances of potentially fatal tubal ruptures in patients with ectopic pregnancies at her Catholic-affiliated hospital.  She said that her hospital subjected patients with ectopic pregnancies to unnecessary delays in treatment, despite patients’ exhibiting serious symptoms indicating that a tubal rupture was possible.  These patients, therefore, were denied emergency care to which they were legally entitled.

In some of the miscarriage cases described in the Ibis Study, the standard of care also required immediate treatment. Yet doctors practicing at Catholic-affiliated hospitals were forced to delay treatment while performing medically unnecessary tests.  Even though these miscarriages were inevitable, and no medical treatment was available to save the fetus, some patients were transferred because doctors were required to wait until there was no longer a fetal heartbeat to provide the needed medical care. This delay subjected these patients to further risks of hemorrhage and infection and could have violated their right to receive emergency medical treatment under federal law.

http://www.nwlc.org/press-release/womens-health-and-lives-risk-due-religious-restrictions-hospitals-...

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Seems to me, they found a way around it.   If one is seeking an abortion, why would they go to a religious hospital, if they do not provide those services?    However, the PROPER thing to do, such in the case you mentioned above, would be to fully explain the situation to the patient, and then tell the patient the medical options.  For example, they could say, we will run more tests, to see what we can do, but you might want to know, aborting the fetus is one option that may help you, but we don't perform them here.  You can go to Dr. Octor down the street, if you wish to explore that option, and we will arrange the transfer.'

I think a Hospital has a right to not have to preform any and all procedures, if they don't wish to, but they need to fully inform the patient, of alternatives, and where they could get them.

[Canuck_2]

Yes informing the patient would seem the best policy BUT would that make someone hell bent on imposing their religious beliefs on a woman in medical distress tell them of an option that went against their 'belief'?

Also a problem of logisitcs if you are ill and have to travel an hour or more to a hospital which will carry out an appropriate medical procedure when a hospital is 'just around the corner' from you.

Remember if you happened to go to a Jehovh's Witness hospital you would not be able to get a blood transfussion. 

[Nebrfarmr]

Was there another hospital she could have been taken to?

[Nebrfarmr]

And if you went to our local hospital, with a ruptured appendix, all they would do, would be stabilize your condition, and send you on to another hospital.

Religious beliefs have nothing to do with it.  The hospital just does not do that kind of surgery, which is kind of the point I am trying to make.   If they do not do the procedure there, refer them to some place that does.

Not every hospital, does every procedure, even without any kind of religious overtones.  I am willing to bet, that the Catholic hospitals does not have anyone on staff, who is an abortion doctor.  They probably could not do the procedure anyway, because there likely is no surgeon on staff, certified to perform the procedure.

[Canuck_2]

Not the lady in Ireland since it is the law of the land that you can not save the mother if their is a fetal heartbeat.

In the US women are usually able to get to another hospital IF someone tells them the option of medical care on time is available elsewhere.

But if you read the article I linked to earlier the hospitals tens to delay with unnecessary tests and procedures and wait until the heart beat finally stops and then carry out the procedure that should haave been carried out much sooner to reduce the risk of death which was a reality to a lady who did not even believe in the 'god' which in effect mandated her death through poor/slow medical treatment because of outdated and outmoded 'beliefs'. 

[Nebrfarmr]

So, if it is the law, in Ireland, how is the Hospital to blame?
They are just following the law.

I have heard many,many times on this board, that the law is the LAW, and must be followed.  As I have stated many times, be careful when you rely on too many laws, because law is a double-edged sword.