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Senior Contributor

Re: GOD DOES HEAR MILLION CHLDREN

You are a total nut.  What Million children? Stick to your god and maybe he might send you some brains in the next batch.

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Senior Contributor

Re: \you tell GOD on judgement day

and may he have mercy on your soul

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Veteran Advisor

Re: No abortion allowed, woman dies

My own mother, was walking around, more than 2 years after she was supposed to be dead from cancer.  Every single doctor, including specialists at the Mayo Clinic, gave her no more than 6 months, more likely less than 3.   She lived more than 2 1/2 years after that.  Not ONE of them, could give a medical explanation of why she was still alive, except to say it was an 'unexplainable miracle.

 

On the other side of the coin, you need to realize that the Catholic belief, is that a fetus, is 'human', and as long as it has a heartbeat, they view it as killing, or murdering a human.  There are plenty of other people, who belive that anything with a heartbeat, is 'alive', and religion has nothing to do with it.

Now, if you regard a person not yet born, as 'not human', it is a lot easier to say to kill it, for the sake of someone else.  However, if you view the fetus, as just as much 'human' as the mother, how do you make that distinction.

To put it another way, they view the lives as equal.  Kind of like if you had twins, and one had a medical condition, that was fatal.  You could take an organ from the other twin, to save the life of the first, but it will kill the second one.   What do you do?

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Veteran Advisor

Re: \you tell GOD on judgment day

You have FINALLY reached the understanding!  It is all about judgment day and that is between God and the person---not YOU nor anyone else not making the decision.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: No abortion allowed, woman dies

 in I understand your reference, but look at it deeper.

The Nazis were 'following the law'.  and that led to the killing of millions of Jews.  The Nazis didn't care, for the most part, because they felt the Jews were 'less than human'.

Abortion doctors, also 'follow the law' which leads to the killing of millions of fetuses.  They use the same excuse, that a fetus is 'less than human'.


I think, you and I can agree, that the Jews, were truly 'human'.   To the Catholics, and many others, so is a fetus.

Personally, I belive there is a point, where the fetus becomes 'human'.  We should all agree, that it is 'human' before it is born, there are plenty of examples of people walking around, that were not carried to full term, by vaginal birth.  The question, is at what point, do they become human?   Since I am not smart enough, to know exactly when that occurs, I would much rather err to the side of protecting one, that is not yet fully 'human', than err the other way, and wind up advocating the killing of an actual person, under the assumption that it is 'less than human'.  I hope you understand my point of view of that.

Now, I am not Catholic, and do not belive that abortions should not ever be performed under any circumstances, but more of the opinion, that the fetus is likely also a human life, not just something to be thrown away, and that needs to be weighed in the decision to abort or not.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Because of abortion, woman dies


@Canuck_2 wrote:

I think you are referring to a time before science was used in medicine.

Certainly a time before the cause of disease was recognized.

 

Much like I belive the abortion issue will be solved, once science can prove once and for all, the time at which the fetus becomes a human life.  I am not smart enough, to know exactly when that happens, so I am pro life, for the very reason that I do not want innocent lives to be lost.

You could compare it to someone against the death penalty, using the argument 'what if' they execute someone that is not guilty, and the loss of one innocent life, is too high a cost to pay, just to impose a stricter punishment on criminals.  I counter that, with the argument, 'what if' life begins sooner than many belive, and there are thousands, or even millions, of innocent human lives lost, just for the sake of convenience?  Because of that, until you can prove without a doubt, that before a certain point, a fetus is not 'human', I will oppose the killing of it.

 

But yes there can be good advice from many sources the trick is to weed out the bad 'beliefs' and replace them with good science based medical treatment.

 

The case in Ireland was exactly what you say is OK, completing a naturally occuring miscarriage by aborting the fetus quickly to reduce the chance of infection in the woman.

The law and hospital there forced the woman to not get this medical intervention in a timely manner and the result was her death.

 

I am not trying to say the hospital was 'right' I am saying they followed the procedure, at the time, and counering that it should not be an issue in this country, as there are plenty of non-Catholic hospitals, that would be more than willing to do the procedure. 
I do not know enough of Irish law, to have any idea on what to tell them to do.

 

Remember one church there forced their belief on a person who did not even believe in thier god and it resulted in her death.

Whose beliefs should be forced on who? 

 

Neither, she should have been free to go to a non-Catholic hospital. 

 

I am sure if the woman could speak she would think her rights were violated.

 

So would the 200 women who die each year, as the result of an abortion (the number Gored came up with using US stastitics). 
On one side, you have one example of a death.  On the other, 200.  Who is more right?

Probably neither, because ANY preventable death, is a tragedy, but when you look at the big picture, I don't think there is much of any medical procedure, that carries zero risk.


 

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Veteran Advisor

Re: No abortion allowed, woman dies

That reminds me of a joke I saw recently on a Benny Hill rerun. 

He commented, that those who are for abortion, every last one of them, has already been born.

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Senior Contributor

Re: i expect gooboy will find out

his sin will be eternal death and life in hell just read the BOOK it clearly tells you how to judge one like him----do you doubt the BIBLE--he already has his tickert punched

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Senior Contributor

Re:ever hear of abortion

or has that not made the news where you live--and yes GOD has heard these children and theri blood will be on the abortiuon backers --may GOD have mercy on their poor wretched souls

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Senior Contributor

Re: No abortion allowed, woman dies


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

My own mother, was walking around, more than 2 years after she was supposed to be dead from cancer.  Every single doctor, including specialists at the Mayo Clinic, gave her no more than 6 months, more likely less than 3.   She lived more than 2 1/2 years after that.  Not ONE of them, could give a medical explanation of why she was still alive, except to say it was an 'unexplainable miracle.

 

On the other side of the coin, you need to realize that the Catholic belief, is that a fetus, is 'human', and as long as it has a heartbeat, they view it as killing, or murdering a human.  There are plenty of other people, who belive that anything with a heartbeat, is 'alive', and religion has nothing to do with it.

Now, if you regard a person not yet born, as 'not human', it is a lot easier to say to kill it, for the sake of someone else.  However, if you view the fetus, as just as much 'human' as the mother, how do you make that distinction.

To put it another way, they view the lives as equal.  Kind of like if you had twins, and one had a medical condition, that was fatal.  You could take an organ from the other twin, to save the life of the first, but it will kill the second one.   What do you do?


A couple of thoughts about your ideas there Neb.

My father lived over 20 years after his cancer diagnosis and operation and doctors opinin that he had 6 months left.

No we did not think it was a miracle, nothing really out of the ordinary just luck that the surgeon was able to excise all of the cancer when he did not think that he did.

No radiation or chemal therapies either just the surgery but it extended his life some 25 years and he died in his 80ies.

We thanked the skill of the surgeon and our medical system and he did not even have to pay for the health care or an insurance policy.

 

I understand that the Catholic church believes it is a life even when the first sperm cell and egg come together but it is interesting that they would not 'kill' a fetus or zygote when it is already being 'killed' by the womans own body through miscarriage.

Now although they would not 'kill' this aborting fetus to save a womans life they will go forth and kill grown men and women as well as walking and talking children in war.

That is hypocritical and certainly not a rational way to think about life.

 

In the case we have been talking about nature has already decided the fate of the fetus/zygot  and grown trained doctors know the sooner they extract the material whether there is still a heartbeat or not the better it is for the health and well being of the woman.

Why do we let some one else's 'belief' stop medicine from doing their job efficiently and safely for all.