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Honored Advisor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

With all due respect Sgt Schurrbart, you served in Germany during Vietnam and don`t understand about war zones.  The suspects had explosive residues on them approached the convoy and acted suspicious.  They were prime candidates to at least be interogated, the enemy over there doesn`t wear a uniform, so our guys don`t know what the hell they`re getting into.  Even if it`s 2 guys on a motorcycle, they could be a diversion to a ambush, the key was there was ample "probable cause" to interogate them.

Advisor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

Stepping back a bit.

 

The effort for regime change in 7 ME countries that Wes Clark reported has proceeded since the late 90s when the plans were being cooked up through the deep state revolving door inside and outside of government.

 

Need to throw in the Ukraine fiasco and the pathetic move by Bush Cheney in Georgia that was crushed because there's an EU/NATO element in all this. Just so as to begin to gain some insight. The strategic lever that Russia has over  EU with energy was to be broken- that's a point where you might say that vital US interests were at stake, I guess.

 

Israel, of course, which has been eerily quiet about all this. They suffered their first serious battlefield defeats by Hezbollah in Lebanon and didn't like it. And the discovery of large offshore gas fields in the Med makes a Syrian pipeline route of extreme importance to them- and blocking it equally so for Russia.

 

All good to there but of course Iraq was an historic fiasco. Which didn't stop anyone from moving on down the list with Libya and Syria. Hard telling what the heck happened in Egypt as we sort of just ended up swapping one friendly dictator for another.

 

BTW, there is a real Benghazi story that fits neatly in here although it is a bit different than the Gowdy version. The CIA was running arms through there to Syria, just more of the same 'ol, but it went bad. More a CIA operation than State and not like they don;t commonly piggyback off each other. And despite all the terrible things that the Hillmonster is going to do to Real Americans (generally nothing much different than their shlubs) she's certainly as dedicated to seeing this through as anyone, if you happen to regard that as a good thing.

 

I don't see anyone pointing a direction out of this. One point to make would be the serious strategic limitations of air power. You can pound the table all you want about carpet bombing but it isn't going to win anything on its own and could most definitely make things worse. Sounds tough though, and easy.

 

I do see a straight line from here to the collapse of the US republic in a final gasp of imperial overstretch and it could run through Hillary or any of the Republicans. Whether any of us really grasp the true nature of it the neolib financialized economy is fragile.

 

The larger portion of any populist revolt against the present direction has been co-opted in classsic confederate fashion by encouraging people to kick down and suck up.

 

You can feel the fear and anger and then echo in places where we ought to be giving it all some consideration. This could get a lot worse than anyone here has seen in their lifetime, fairly soon.

 

 

Senior Advisor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.


@schnurrbart wrote:

Did they have bombs or other weapons on them?  Did they stop, get off the bike and walk toward the Americans and then go back when told to do so?  Seems your heroes sure are FEARED of a lot of things and use that as a defense.  Don't motorcycle gangs usually have more than 1 bike and two people???


During WW2 my uncle served in the PTs. They would sink these Japanese barges going between islands resuppling their forces. They would pick up survivors. One day a survivor tossed a hand granade on board killing several sailors and wonding more. After that they never picked up another survivor.

Senior Contributor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

Aren't you gonna wait until bergdahl is convicted or somethong before younexecute him. Of course if your  target is Obama then you can't wait.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

You don't interrogate dead guys!  How much do you know about war zones? You think I spent 27 yrs in Germany?

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

With all due respect Mr Deere, you're being lied to.  For background, I was one of the soldiers on the ground during the engagement, I can and am willing to verify if necessary.  The version of events you're describing is so far from the truth, I'll go ahead and clear up some of the more common misconceptions before providing much better sources.  There was only one motorcycle and they were driving towards the village, NOT towards our position.  The riders stopped and dismounted the bike after being fired at initially and were still standing there when the order to kill them was given.  The roads were not blocked off or restricted to military use only nor were there any signs posted.  There was nothing out of the ordinary about them riding a motorcycle, in fact we had seen them that morning and spoken to them at our base before the mission.  The bodies were searched but were not allowed (by the Lt) to be biometrically identified nor were there any traces of explosive residue found on the deceased.  The helicopter did not show up until AFTER the engagement in which the men had been killed.  I could go on and on but I believe those are the most important points I need to cover.  Lastly, I'll provide you with much more credible sources.  If you want the real story, you have to go back to the beginning.  I can't just make an appeal on authority and say, "believe me because I was there" but I can tell you there was a reporter from the newspaper local to Ft Bragg who sat in on the trial and reported during each of the five days.

Here is a run down of the various actions he was charged for:
www.stripes.com/news/us/army-lieutenant-sentenced-to-20-years-for-afghan-killings-1.233529 
The articles linked under the related tab are all by the same author covering previous days in the trial.

Here's an article in which his lawyer admitted that he told us to forget we saw the ID:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-murder-idUSBRE97115V20130802

You'll notice these predate anything that's coming out now.  Lastly, if you're still in doubt, I highly recommend the Prosecution Opposition on the defense webpage you yourself linked.  Starting around page 4 or 5 it outlines some of the more egregious claims the defense in now making and sheds some light on what was really going on.  If you have any questions or want further clarification, please feel free to ask me, I just really can't stand to see so many lies being told about what went down.  His actions endangered the lives of all the men that were operating in that area as well as the soldiers who replaced us, their blood may as well be on his hands.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Respectfully,
T.F.

Honored Advisor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

Thank you for the information, Fitzy.  I don`t doubt you, I heard the story on the radio by Colonel Allen West and the folks that he was interviewing.  It`s all going to come out in the wash, the lawyer for Clint Lorance are making his case.  I want to give all you guys that are in that hell hole more than the bennefit of the doubt.  It`s good you come forward with these facts, Thank you for your service and bringing this side to light.

Advisor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

No doubt this experience will give you pause in the future. 

Honored Advisor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

I always "give pause" and will always yield to someone with common sense and facts and experience to backup what they are saying.  It`s too often on idiot liberals push their opinion that is nothing more than a feeble attempt to justify their support of the "gimmee more!" party.

 

Fritzy on the otherhand is polite, respectful and you can tell decent.  He knows what he`s talking about and isn`t afraid to put it on the line, he has to be a conservative  Smiley Happy  It`s good to know that decent people like Fritzy are still in the military.

Senior Contributor

Re: Obama should rely on those experienced generals.

 

 

Lesson : FAILED

 

You know what that means..........

 

 

NO SPARKLES for you  Smiley Sad