Re: Ollie, This is an example of your racist tendencies.
Re: Ollie, a friend asked me to post this for you....
Hey Knapper, it`s funny as heated as things get on here we all kind of self-correct, we all seem to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. Not so on the "New Agtalk" site, it looks like they put it in a unrecoverable tail spin. A few times on here things got close with posters leaving because of the heat. We can all learn from those we don`t share similar opinions, even if it`s just learning your opponent`s weak spots . Religion is a subject that needs it`s own page, beliefs in that area are more tightly held than even politics. Have a Good One!
Re: Knapper. about atheists
Hi Knapper, you said "why atheists often feel they have to make it so obviously known they are atheist?"
I will assume you include me under that statement.
I am not sure if I have ever made it obvious that I am an atheist until a 'believer' has posted something that makes it obvious they believe in some kind of god.
So why is it wrong for me to state my understanding of the way the universe works and not wrong for these 'believers' to make their statements?
I usually post just to point out the meaningless comments that believers make. Statements that they repeat by rote and do not even consider the meaning or intent behind them let alone the complete lack of any proof or evidence that their belief is founded on anything concrete.
Re: Knapper. About atheists
Yes, I was thinking about you somewhat, but also personal references never mentioned here (I usually stay out of these debates) - family on my wife's side to be truthful ( a bro-in-law. That always has to make everyone absolutely sure he is an atheist). Basically you are typically jousting with those who believe they can quote the Bible, or cite a miracle and offer that as proof of God's existence. There is no proof and there will never be proof. There is only faith and belief.
No, you have never identified yourself as an atheist. Atheism is simply the diebelief in deities. It is obvious that you fit this definition and I have no problem with it because what you do or do not believe does not affect me of my beliefs. Many here can not hoe that row because they were taught differently - more strictly and more literally.
There is nothing wrong for you to express your views. Though there are plenty of those here who repeat statements (Bible quotes) by rote. I also believe that there is no point in asking for evidence/ptoof of God. There is no evidence and there will likely be no evidence unless scenes in the Bible are repeated and video-taped (Such as Moses receiving the Ten Commandments). It is most likely that in any of our lifetimes, there will be nothing concrete for anyone to offer as proof.
I believe because I want to believe and that is good enough for me.
I am not sure I am expressing what I want to say correctly. I seldom suspect that I am 100% correct except for universal truths, such as man's kindness to man, honesty, and basic matters of humanity.
The bottom line as you have probably already suspected is that I think there may be too many times where you wear your diebelief on your sleeve. That's OK and the primary reason I have never said anything. It does not affect me. I do not need validation nor am I intimidated by questioning.
On the other hand, violations of basic humanity (which exist outside of religion) do offend me and I am very likely to challenge them. Hate, bigotry, prejudice, avarice, greed, self-absorption are far more likely to rile me and make me respond. I believe stealing is wrong. I believe lying is wrong. I believe coveting is wrong. Basically, if you take God out of the ten commandments, you pretty much have the universal guidelines of life that all should follow and probably most atheists follow (though many would like to make athieist automatic villains). These are the universal truths and I am not likely to cross anyone who follows them. There are some here who claim to be Christian, yet ignore these cornerstones that not only Christianity are built on, but basic humanity is built on. Anyone who follows the basic truths of humanity is OK in my book, atheist or Christian.
I believe a perrson is far more likely to go to Heaven if they are kind to everyone and treat them like human beings rather than someone who never misses a Sunday at church, can quote the Bible, yet is a bogot. Hate is the enemy and anyone that is good struggles with hate. Anyone that is bad is fine existing with hate.
It is a complex matter and I hope I helped explain my basic tenants.
Re: Knapper. About atheists
Yes Knapper you did a fine job of explaining yourself.
You describe the way to live your life the same as I try to live mine.
I have said many times I have no problem with anyone who believes as long as they do not try to force it on me, or any others.
As you noted there are good and bad in all categories, all religions and those who understand the universe without any god's.
I know you will have a great day with an understanding of life like you have.