Pig KILLS Lion

[Husker-J]

I am not saying that I approve to what happened to the lion, what I am asking, is what crime has he been convicted of?

I can't even count the number of times I was told to leave my personal morals out of someone else's business, because unless they have been convicted of a crime, I'm supposedly imposing my morals (or religion) on someone else's 'livestyle choice', and that I need to have 'tolerance' to other people so long as they don't cause me harm personally.

Where is any of that, to the lion hunter?

Yes, the lion was baited, and I personally disagree with it, but if it is not illegal, I thought I wasn't supposed to force my personal views/standards on other people, since baiting lions doesn't harm me.

Yes, he had a collar, but how can we be so sure it was easy to see?   I know I can't see across the ocean to get a look at it.  How do we know that the collar was visible behind the mane?  I have seen many pictures of this lion posted in various websites now, and I have yet to spot the collar. 

How do we know that this poor guy wasn't 'duped' into shooting the lion by one of the guides?  If you hire a professional, and they tell you this is a good lion to shoot, would you question it?

They are currently investigating this whole matter, and considering how big an issue this has become, that no stone will go unturned to try to convict the guy on something.  If he is found guilty of a crime, I'm confident we'll all hear about it, and if found guilty, I will be right with everyone else in condemning him.

However, why not let the 'facts' come out, before we convict a man, who's only 'crime' may be that he made a 'lifestyle choice' that we may disagree with?  Or is it OK to harass/condem him because what he did was not politically correct?

[KNAPPer]

Apparently the current standards of this forum do not allow me to question the collar's visibility, the integrity of the dentist, the guides motives, or whether the guides who live and work there knew what they were doing when they baited a very well known lion (that they didn't recognize of course) off the national park. The poor dentist was obviously duped by his guides. And when the lion was finally shot with a rifle after being tracked 40 hours with an arrow stuck in him, and the collar was removed, and one of the party attempted to destroy it, we can only assume nobody suspected that the lion could have come from the park either. Let me add that as we all know, only one adult male lion is allowed to be around the rest of the pride. We all know of course that an adult male who is not the alpha lion not allowed anywhere near the pride by the alpha lion, so it must have been incredible luck to run into this fully adult lion so close to the park and the rest of the pride. All makes sense to me that there is no way the doctor could have even suspected things were just a little too easy and that he was just super lucky to find this lion to shoot.

- I think that's what is being said to me. Got it. I withdraw my previous statement.

[man of steel]

You made a rather pointed statement about the collar and it was pointed out previously that this was a "special" maned lion. So I took to looking up pics of Cecil the lion and I couldn't find any with a collar showing.

From thousands of miles away you accused this guy of ignoring the collar.

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@KNAPPer wrote:

Apparently the current standards of this forum do not allow me to question the collar's visibility,

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And evidently your standards don't allow me to question it either

[KNAPPer]

Well, that JUSt me. You had lots of other fellows on your side. We always question each other because we both have different perspectives. That's just the way it goes. I do like your questions and you keep me on my toes. And no, I can't see his collar and I am not going to look. Maybe it couldn't be seen, but the rest of my post may possibly be valid.

[man of steel]

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@KNAPPer wrote:

Well, that JUSt me. You had lots of other fellows on your side. We always question each other because we both have different perspectives. That's just the way it goes. I do like your questions and you keep me on my toes. And no, I can't see his collar and I am not going to look. Maybe it couldn't be seen, but the rest of my post may possibly be valid.

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What side am I on KNAPP? I made one post asking for a pic of the collared lion. Nowhere I've looked had a pic of a lion with a collar. Just trying to get a handle on it

Since I'm on some sort of side here I'll tell you my thoughts of this:

• Moron pays ridiculous money for a shoot the lion trip
• News of this wouldn't have made it past the 30 mile mark if it would have been any other lion
• There is nothing special about this lion
• Moron didn't set out for this lion

Not sure if that puts me on the side you put me because the side I'm on is the side that looks at this as it really is...a total unknown.

Now! Are you sure that the rest of your post "may possibly be valid"?

[Husker-J]

Knapper, if I offended you, I apologize.

My post was not directed at you, but rather a general post towards those who are condemning this guy without knowing what happened.

Basically, I'm with MOS.

This idiot paid a lot of money to go lion hunting, which is a legal practice.

He had permits to shoot a lion, so it appears that he intended to do it legally.

He hired professional guides, which to me, says that he was trying to do it the right way.

He wound up shooting a very famous lion, I would assume by mistake.  One would think that if he Knew all about Cecil, and how popular he was, there was no way he would knowingly shoot him.

Now, it gets foggy.   It appears that they tried to cover up it was Cecil, by disabling the collar.   However, we have no idea who in the hunting party did this.

The lion was baited, which I don't personally feel is ethical, even less so near a preserve, where the lions over time become less wary of human activity.

However, until we know exactly what the hunter is guilty of, is it not jumping the gun, to be condemning him of a crime?

<edit:  I just spent a few minutes looking through images of 'Cecil the Lion' that are on the internet.  I must have looked at 50+ pictures, and no where did I spot the collar.  If it is a 'highly visible' collar, I sure missed it, and encourage anyone to post a pic of him with the collar visible.  end edit>

Lastly, and this is aimed towards no one in particular, but rather the vast numbers of people who say that we must be 'tolerant' of the behaviours/lifestyles of others who's actions we disagree with, but who aren't breaking the law:
Why are so many condemning him for committing an act you personally disagree with, which has not yet been proven to be illegal?  What happened to 'tolerance'?  Imagine the outrage if someone were to have posted the home address and personal telephone number of say, Sandra Fluke, or similar?  Why no outrage that this guy's info is being plastered all over?
Let the investigation continue, either they will find evidence he committed a crime, or they will not.

If they do, punish him to the full extent of the law, if they don't, then why make an innocent man's life miserable?

[NewAgJudge]

Say again ?? What does yeap mean ?  Sorry but, I dont speak teabagger.

[NewAgJudge]

You forgot the part about the 2 guides being arrested. I don't think it was for J-walking.

You also forgot the part about using  a Spotlight to murder Cecil.

Maybe you aren't aware, but the good dentist plead guilty to a similar crime for the killing ( not  " taking "  ) of a bear in Wisc,  I think in 2008.

And this today :

 From Reuters-

 The American dentist who killed Cecil the lion was a "foreign poacher" who paid for an illegal hunt and he should be extradited to Zimbabwe to face justice, environment minister Oppah Muchinguri said on Friday. In Harare's first official comments since Cecil's killing grabbed world headlines this week, Muchinguri said the Prosecutor General had already started the process to have 55-year-old Walter Palmer extradited from the United States. Muchinguri, a 91-year-old veteran from President Robert Mugabe's ruling ZANU-PF party, described Cecil - a black-maned lion well-known to foreign tourists in the Hwange National Park - as an "iconic attraction". "The illegal killing was deliberate," she told a news conference. "We are appealing to the responsible authorities for his extradition to Zimbabwe so that he can be held accountable for his illegal actions."

[NewAgJudge]

lol...wut ?????????

Responsible Hunting is ok.  Poaching is not.

More people have a problem with the likes of you, than me.

[Husker-J]

I just read the part about the guides being arrested, that doesn't look good, but also doesn't PROVE that the other guy committed a crime.  I do not belive in convicting someone, because he was around 'those kind of people'. 

Still too many questions:

Exactly what crimes were committed?

Who committed them?
As of right now, it does not look good for the dentist, but it is possible he was duped by a couple crooked guides, who led him to belive that what he was doing was OK, and the you know what hit the fan, because it was Cecil.

I'm with MOS, had it been 'just a lion, and not Cecil, I don't belive there would be much, if any, ballyhoo about this.