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BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Proof of Intelligent Design.

Here is scientific and mathematical proof that the universe was created http://www.scribd.com/doc/54064114/GOD-Exists     Now, this is just proof that the universe was created, not if the creator is a homophobic, prude like I believe that He is.  We have to get over this first huddle before we can discuss the moralty of the Creator.  I don`t care if you read it, believe or choose to deny science and mathematics, I am only presenting these facts for you to do as you see fit.

 

This involves only 3 questions:

1. Does the universe exist?   A. Universe does exist.    B. Universe does not exist.  C. not sure

If you didn`t answer "A" go jump in the lake, you`re wasting my time Smiley Happy

 

2. Since the universe exists, did it have a begining?   A. It did have a begining.  B. It has always been in existence forever     C. impossible to know

If you believe in the scientific,  Laws of Thermodynamics, you must answer "A" that the universe did have a begining.  Because 1. the universe is slowly burning itself out.  2. We can determine how fast that it is burning itself out.  3. We know that someday there will be a heat equilibrium in the universe.

 

So, to recap. the universe exists and did have a begining, if you disagree fine, quit reading and do something else.  We`re ready for the 3rd and final question:

 

HOW did the universe begin?  There are only 3 possible answers.

1.Universe was created.   2. Universe happened by chance   3. not sure

If you are not sure, then you can not say one way or another and I RESPECT that...go in peace.  If you say "by chance" page 12 of the link shows the mathematical impossiblity of something as complicated as the universe happening by chance.   The 1st Law of Thermodynamics staes that energy can`t be created (without God) only changed.  Therefore logically the universe was intelligently designed.

 

Just thought some of you would find this interesting and it`s all in good fun.Smiley Happy

59 Replies
KNAPPer
Senior Contributor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

For all we know, the universe has expanded, collapsed and been created almost an infinite number of times. All we know about is what those darn hated scientists say. If you are a bible literalist, it does not exclude the possibility of other universes before ours. "The beginning" is only the beginning of ours.

 

PS - You think God is a homophobic prude? That won't put you in very good standing with your brethren here.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

Hey Knapper the universe may have been, "expanded, collasped and created a number of times" that would be in conjunction with the Law of Thermodynamics.  Doesn`t the book of Genesis say something about "..in the begining, the earth was without form and void"?   I don`t see why there theorically aren`t other universes like ours and other dimensions.  As a Christian that is also a intellectual liberal, Knapper I thought this would been up your alley, especially since I said "intelligent design" and didn`t push a particular belief on anyone. I thought it was very open minded of me and appealing to the greatest number of readers.

GreaTOne_65
Senior Contributor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

Hey, BA, the people that wrote the Bible, did they believe the earth was flat, or oval, or round? Did they know, or have an idea?

gough whitlam
Senior Contributor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

You can read that until the cows come home and it proves nothing.  Whilever you are dilusional about the realities of the universe, etc, you would believe anything.  Beliefs do not equate to facts. 

 

HOW did the universe begin?  There are only 3 possible answers.

1.Universe was created.   2. Universe happened by chance   3. not sure

If you are not sure, then you can not say one way or another and I RESPECT that...go in peace.  If you say "by chance" page 12 of the link shows the mathematical impossiblity of something as complicated as the universe happening by chance.   The 1st Law of Thermodynamics staes that energy can`t be created (without God) only changed.  Therefore logically the universe was intelligently designed.

 

There is not one shred of evidence to prove the universe was intelligently designed no matter what that nut says.  His theories are as relevant today as the time it was written.I am sick of hearing about your stupid god and how he did this or that.  Come up with some irrefutable facts based on the knowledge which is out there, included all the technology today, exclude your wild religious beliefs and society might take some notice. It is your lack of reasonable intelligent debate on the matter of religion which puts all your theories in the witchcraft basket.  Until then, tell someone who cares.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

Gough, I don`t know what kind of debauchery that you`re engaged in that you find distasteful even just saying that you "don`t know" for sure the origins of the universe.  That is your choice, but you have to at the very least know the impossibilty of the odds of absolutely discarding "intelligent design".  The universe is just too complex to happen purely by chance, to deny that is denying mathematics.  Even the earth is placed not too far nor too close to the sun, it has a life sustaining atmosphere contained by a ozone. The right amount of water, trees are the right height in MichiganSmiley Happy,  soils that will grow food, a google amount of very privilages that make this planet inhabitable.  And with all our telescopes, we are yet to find such a lucky planet.

 

To illustrate the odds of chance involved here, how many times would a torando have to hit a junkyard to make something usefull from the parts flying around?  Well, the odds of a tornado actually hitting a junkyard are low to begin with, but now let`s take it to another level.  What would the odds that a tornado would hit a junkyard and create a 2007 Dodge 2500 Ram, white, with a 5.9 Cummins that is chipped producing 800 hp?  That is the kind of odds that we are talking about by "chance"...I would think that at least would be a "I don`t know how the universe orginated" by even the most exercised, God hatter.

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

You find it interesting but note it is in fun.

 

Now if you are interested in the claim of mathematical 'proof' that the universe was 'created' then you will certainly be interested in reading this

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/can_probability_theory_be_used_to_refute_evolution_part_o...

This seems to show that, while we may not be able to calculate precisely the probability of evolving the genes necessary for eye formation, we can still assert that the probability is very, very small.

Have we done it? Can we conclude that it is effectively impossible for evolution to have produced an eye? Many creationists would say that we could. You will find the argument described in the previous paragraph, presented in varying levels of detail, in a great many creationist outlets. Sadly, their analysis overlooks several crucial points.

Perhaps you have already spotted the flaw in this argument. In carrying out our calculation, we simply assumed that every hundred-letter gene sequence was as likely as any other. This assumption is completely unwarranted, for two reasons.

First, keep in mind that evolution works its magic by modifying preexisting structures. Consequently, the particular gene sequences likely to occur in a given generation are those attainable from preexisting sequences via known genetic mechanisms. As an example, suppose that in some organism we find the gene sequence ACGATCT. One source of genetic variation is the point mutation, in which an individual nucleotide is replaced in the next generation with a different nucleotide. Thus, it is perfectly reasonable to suppose that the offspring of our hypothetical organism will possess the gene sequence ATGATCT. By contrast, it is highly unlikely that we will encounter the sequence TGATAAG.

Second, we have ignored the action of natural selection in our reasoning thus far. Most of the hundred-letter gene sequences we could write down would lead to a badly defective organism were they to be found in nature. So even if the odd macromutation caused one of these sequences to appear in some unfortunate organism, natural selection would ensure that the gene was quickly flushed from the population in subsequent generations.

In summary, our proposed calculation of the probability of evolving an eye over a period of millions of years runs into two major obstacles. First, the fact that evolution works by modifying preexisting structure means that certain gene sequences are far more likely to occur than others. Second, the sieving action of natural selection guarantees that defective gene sequences will not linger for long in nature.

 

Yes the mathematical 'argument' has been around for quite a while but not applicable.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

Hey Canuck, I believe in elvolution as defined, `living things change` ie, a human female with a "mutant gene" of having blonde hair, she would be more attractive, procreate more and pass her atractiveness on.  Also, in modern times with warfare, I`ve often wondered that we seem to be adicted to having a war every 20 yrs.  So, the healthest are given a test and drafted into the Army and bullets are shot at the healthest of our population...and yes, Bruce, I realize that the 'draft" hasn`t been in our policy for 40 yrs so dial 1-800-eat-s-h-i-tSmiley Happy that doesn`t take away from my point.  But yes Canuck, living things change, species die out, genes mutate and pass on, diets change, warfare and disease changes life.

 

Also Canuck, a person has to account for the science of Law of Thermodynamics, where energy can only be changed, not created...unless by an unknown force.  Now, if you want to believe that the impossiblity of chance has been overcome a incredible number of times and there was no intelligent design...more power to you.  But realize that "belief" requires an tremedous amount of "faith" and if I held that "belief" I certainly wouldn`t be casting stones at those that believe in Intelligent Design.

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

Why is it, that so many people, who cannot answer how it all started, can still be so certain that it could not have been 'created'?  When asked what started the whole chain reaction that started the universe, as well as life, they have no real answer other than it could not have been God.

I thought pure science required that all possibilities be considered, until absolutely proven wrong.

Yet, someone like me, is the one who is 'close minded'

gough whitlam
Senior Contributor

Re: Proof of Intelligent Design.

Deere - without sounding too abrasive, grow up.  You are not a fool.  How can you possibly believe some great big star junkie put all that in place in seven days. If the proof by carbon dating is there to say something is 10 billion years old, could it be  a remote possibility that the passing of time had something to do with it also.  Hmmmmmmmmmmm -  
There is no evidence to suggest anyone created it, let alone a god.  I am totally gobbsmacked how a rational human being like yourself could still bash your head against the wall believing that crap.