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Honored Advisor

Re: Proof that Islam is superior to Christianity

The answer to the riddle is simple in the extreme, would you rather...Be a Muslim living in a Christian nation ? or a Christian living in a Muslim nation?  For physical treatment ie, getting your head loped off, hands cut off, stoned and such a Muslim Sharia type country is a dangerous place.  I would rather be a Christian .. living anywhere, my rewards are not of this earth.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Yes, I disagree Islam is superior to Christianity

You study the Koran a lot??  Where does it say that part about the killing of infidels if they won't convert?  How about this verse:

 

"but do not commit aggression, for verily, God does not love aggressors."  Koran 2:190

 

But even if they do believe that, is it really any different than what the Christians did to them during the Crusades?  That was the whole purpose of the Crusades.

 

I'm not trying to defend Islam.  I just think it is irresponsible to label an entire religion because of a small % who are criminals and fanatics.  I think if all Muslims REALLY thought this way, there would be blood running in the streets here by now.

Senior Contributor

Re: Proof that Islam is superior to Christianity

It would sure be nice to know the whole story on this.  Davis claims the two men pointed a gun at him.  I would be very concerned if two men pointed a gun at me in the U.S. but if I was an American in Pakistan and two men pointed a gun at me I would be extremely concerned for my safety.  Sounds to me like it could easily be a case of self defense as opposed to murder if Davis's account of what happened is actually true.

 

 

Who paid the $2 million.  Did the money come from the U.S. government or from Davis and his family?  I'm guessing from some CIA slush fund.

 

 

Was Davis’ visa status changed from “business” to “diplomatic?”  If so is it common practice for the U.S. to now have CIA or other government worker's visa's listed as business instead of diplomatic in an attempt to protect them since in the past some U.S. government agents have been targeted for assassination in Pakistan?

 

 

No doubt this incident will only help to create more hatred of America in a country that we desperately need as an ally if we are to help keep Afghanistan from falling back under the control of the Taliban when and if we eventually pull out.

Advisor

Re: Proof that Islam is superior to Christianity

  The us lie department cllaims the US did not pay the blood money, some reports are Saudis paid it-- http://news.antiwar.com/2011/03/17/report-saudi-arabia-paid-raymond-davis-blood-money/ .   

 

 

  Here is some info, background on Davis

 http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/03/2011317131348571552.htm 

 http://my.firedoglake.com/jimwhite/tag/spy-vs-spy/

Advisor

Re: Yes, I disagree Islam is superior to Christianity

"If the US really had wanted to improve the Islamic world it would have fully embraced the moderate forces and nations within the Islamic world."

 

Now we are mixing politics and theology, which I realize happens especially in Islamic controlled countries.  As I understand it the ... for lack of a better term "militant right" ... perhaps "radicals" is a better term ... in these countries tend to run rough shod over the moderates.

 

"And part and parcel of that has been to co-opt Christian theology."

 

I think I alluded to that.  But something really disturbing is how the Muslim's say and do one thing but claim their scriptures say otherwise to hide it.  Schnurrbart, no I do not "study the Koran a lot".  I am better served putting my time and study into the true words of God.  But lets look at a few excerpts from the Koran.

 

However, before we do let me say this:  I have not studied the total Koran, I have only the excerpts I copy from other places. Perhaps this does not give a true picture of the teachings of Islam, in much the same way cutting and pasting select Old Testament  passages from the Bible fail to give a true picture of Jesus teachings.  Also I realize we are not reading the original language but instead are reading someone's translation which may be colored by their interpretation of what was said. BUT, because so many of the followers of Islam seem to agree with these interpretations and translations of the Koran it is valid to consider them.

 

And I do realize there is a moderate sect of Islam.  I have from time to time listened to the family theologian of the Pakistani family who bought our local gas station.  He likes to get a bit wound up from time to time.

 

http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

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Senior Contributor

Re: Yes, I disagree Islam is superior to Christianity

So Mike you found examples of Muslims killing others.

Did you look for examples of Christians killing others?

What about Srebrenitsa where Christian Serbs slaughtered almost all the male population. Genocide in the name of their god.

Ireland where 2 different ideas of what/who/how a christian god works caused Christian to kill Christian.

And on and on, you just have to look. All religions have radicals who seek to kill other humans especially those who do not believe exactly like them. I always think it is because they are so unsure of their own idea of 'god' they have to enforce it because they know their 'god' will/can not.

And look through your bible and you will find lots of instructions to kill others in there. Check Luke 19:27 for starters.

And of course the instructions in Exodus 13:12-15 are to kill all those who work on Sunday.

Isaih 14:21 wants to slaughter the sons for the fathers guilt.

You just have to look hard enough to find a quote to fit any circumstance you want and the Bible and Koran are the same that way. 

Advisor

Re: So Mike you found examples of Muslims killing others.

 Canuck_2 said

"So Mike you found examples of Muslims killing others.

Did you look for examples of Christians killing others?"

 

Old technique, you don't like the answer so you change the subject. However, let's look at your responce.  You mentioned a couple places where the name "Christian" has been given to people doing horrible things.  I contend these people are using the name "Christian" but are in fact not living the life Jesus advocated.  You also comment:

 

And look through your bible and you will find lots of instructions to kill others in there. Check Luke 19:27 for starters.

And of course the instructions in Exodus 13:12-15 are to kill all those who work on Sunday.

Isaih 14:21 wants to slaughter the sons for the fathers guilt.

 

I contend when you understand the Bible it talks against the things you talk about. Luke 19:29 is talking about the end times, when everyone has had the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior and the one true God as God.The Koran on the other hand repeatedly tells the faithful believers to kill the non-believer now.

 

Maybe I can discuss this further tomorrow.  I HAVE to get some shut eye for now.

 

 

Senior Contributor

Re: So Mike you found examples of Muslims killing others.

How can all the prayer mumblers on here sit comfortably with believing a religion which advocates killing people?

Senior Contributor

Re: So Mike you found examples of Muslims killing others.


@mike se il wrote:

  

Old technique, you don't like the answer so you change the subject. However, let's look at your responce.  You mentioned a couple places where the name "Christian" has been given to people doing horrible things.  I contend these people are using the name "Christian" but are in fact not living the life Jesus advocated.  You also comment:

 No I do not think I was changing the subject. Just pointing out all religions have radicls that do bad things. You can claim they are not "real" christians but then why do you believe muslim terrorists are "real" muslims?

 

I contend when you understand the Bible it talks against the things you talk about. Luke 19:29 is talking about the end times, when everyone has had the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior and the one true God as God.The Koran on the other hand repeatedly tells the faithful believers to kill the non-believer now.

 

See you just want to pick the parts and the interrpretation that suits you.

The quotes are in the book which will support any position you want to take. You just have to keep reading and 'interpreting'.

 

 


 

Senior Advisor

Re: So Mike you found examples of Muslims killing others.

Canuck, in today's world it is the muslims killing anyone, including muslims, in the name of religion. They kill 10s of 1,000s on a yearly basis in the name of alla akbar. What never fails to amaze me is how so many people say ho hum then start in on the radical Christians. They want to pass a law against a Christian if he says God bless but will defend a muslim killing as if they were born with the right to do so. The only conclusion I can draw from my observations is their hatred of Christians out weighs the threat the muslims pose to anyone not muslim. The old the enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality.