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Advisor

Re: Likely True

If I pull out some one with better cred's do I win? Think for yourself knapp.
Veteran Contributor

Re: Reason for downgrade

Personally Canuck I think a main issue is the opposition by such a large segment of America to raise taxes.  You are right here in Canada Paul Martin balanced the books through cuts and increased taxes and while some Canadians grumbled for the most part it was accepted as something that had to be done.  Heck I'm an Alberta conservative, which while currently running a deficit is still the only debt free jurisdiction in North America, and I oppose lowering taxes because I want it to remain so,  I like my highways paved, I like having a hospital and an RCMP detachment in my town, and I like being able to see a doctor and not go broke for having done so.  If we had the taxes and tax breaks recieved in America my town would have none of these things; I'll pay my higher taxes and pay them gladly.  For the U.S the credit down grade is no surprise. Neither side is willing to make enough cuts to balance the books, and one side refuses to raise taxes to help balance the books; so what you have is a country in debt to its ears, and a government and an opposition with no plan and a population that is in denial.  Does that sound like a country that deserves a AAA rating, don't think so.

Honored Advisor

Re: Reason for downgrade

Don`t worry Dairymom, I`m an old softy my Wife and Daughter spent money like a couple liberals, my Wife is a Democrat Smiley Happy .  See, I have to come on here to rant, Lord knows I can`t say what`s on my mind at home Smiley Happy.

Honored Advisor

Re: Reason for downgrade

You got that right Marty, we put it all on the line every year just like every other business.  We are more so at the whim of the gov`t.  One vote ..Bammmo!..ethanol disappears and we have 4 billion bushels of corn on the market, hello below the cost of production prices.  Interest rates go up to "fight inflation"  Bammo!  and our capital intensive apple cart is turned over.  Those who can`t do, generally sit on the sidelines and chuck rocks.  The insurance we buy rarely covers everything that that tough old broad mother nature can throw at us, when she has a tantrum.

Honored Advisor

Re: Reason for downgrade

Hey Red, I`m thinking back about a ad that appeared in farm magazines yrs ago with a sharply dressed gal with a mink coat with a caption "High Maintenance" .  I`ve heard and I`m sure you have too about women who drive a hardworking man to a early grave, trying keep up with all a trophy wife`s spending.  The Democrats aren`t maybe much to look at, but Jesus Christ can they spend!  Only half the folks pay fed income tax and I reluctantly admitt one day they will have to pay more.  However the Tea Party has it right for now, to hold the line on taxes, this administration would just spend it all and then some trying to buy votes for 2012.  Honestly, I don`t know if this mess can be fixed.  If we get a fiscal conservative in the White House, with at least a workable sounding plan, I don`t think any patriotic American would kick too much on a reasonable tax increase if they knew it wouldn`t be squandered and spending was under control.  Control spending FIRST!! then we talk "revenue enhancement". 

Senior Contributor

Re: Reason for downgrade


@BA Deere wrote:

Hey Canuck, would your banker care about inner squabbles with your Wife as long as you are not behind with payments? Nope, he don`t care as long as your payment is on time and that`s what the debt ceiling deal is the Republicans are the hardworking husband and the Democrats are the high maintainance wife.  The family is doing well making it`s obligations it`s just the wife(Democrats) needed a good spanking for over spending. As a lender I would be relieved all be it late.


But BA this 'squabble' was not inner. It was public through out the world and if any banker worth his salt heard of public fights like that between a couple of his customers he would be pulling in the purse strings and waiting for divorce proceedings..

You better make sure that 'spanking' is mutually agreed to or you would find yourself in court for abuse as well as settling for a divorce.

Again more reason for the banker to be concerned.

Senior Contributor

Re: Likely True


@KNAPPer wrote:

Despite what the finger pointers want to say, I believe you are basically correct. What the USA did is prove that we have a broken and seriously flawed political system. Ultra conservatives and those who can still call themselves republicans proved they can hold up important national financial decisions based on principals and tax cuts. Democrats took note and learned that they can also hold up important national financial decisions based on principal as well so they are holding up for social spending and trying to raise tax revenues. It is the ultimate gridlock and proved that our system is broken and somewhat of a risk. Few if any have responded when I pointed out that this congress passed the very budget they threatened not to fund.

 

All that said, S&P's downgrade has to be somehow politically motivated because there is no doubt the US can pay their debts into the reasonable future. What they want, I don't know.

 

Only idiots use pointless stories, parables and anticdotes in response to this issue. These "stories" do not truly express the complexity nor the issues involved. An individual is no more representative of a government's financial credit status than bogfoot is representative of the Oregon legislature. All this finger pointing, use of "stories" just goes to enforce the true problem of our broken political system and ideologies that are not for the people or by the people.


I also raised that point about the budget and got silence.

listened to a couple economists about this subject this morning and that was the point they agreed about too. Good for payments for the time being BUT it is time to turn things around before crunch time comes.

These were US economists and they said the answer was in more taxes. One said the USA needed a VAT (Value Added Tax) for fair and even taxation but said it would never fly politically.



Senior Contributor

Re: Reason for downgrade


@Samnospam wrote:

Pushing it up to a last minute deal with threats to let your country default has confirmed that your debt is not secure

 

Please provide citations of who threatened to default.

 

If you want to know why the downgrade, I would suggest, as others have, to read the s&p documents.


I am sure if we all looked we could find quotes to that effect but what I meant when I posted was the implicit threat that the stonewalling to the last minute implied.

It was certainly talked aboiut in the media that way.

Senior Contributor

Re: Reason for downgrade

Time for you to wake up and smell the coffee, BA. It's the Congress that spends the money, for crissakes, NOT THE PRESIDENT!! Another lie, your propogating that's not true.

Senior Contributor

Re: Reason for downgrade


@NABFarmer wrote:

Personally Canuck I think a main issue is the opposition by such a large segment of America to raise taxes.  You are right here in Canada Paul Martin balanced the books through cuts and increased taxes and while some Canadians grumbled for the most part it was accepted as something that had to be done.  Heck I'm an Alberta conservative, which while currently running a deficit is still the only debt free jurisdiction in North America, and I oppose lowering taxes because I want it to remain so,  I like my highways paved, I like having a hospital and an RCMP detachment in my town, and I like being able to see a doctor and not go broke for having done so.  If we had the taxes and tax breaks recieved in America my town would have none of these things; I'll pay my higher taxes and pay them gladly.  For the U.S the credit down grade is no surprise. Neither side is willing to make enough cuts to balance the books, and one side refuses to raise taxes to help balance the books; so what you have is a country in debt to its ears, and a government and an opposition with no plan and a population that is in denial.  Does that sound like a country that deserves a AAA rating, don't think so.


NAB..... I presume from "N" orthern Alberta?

 

You summed up pretty much how I would have put it.

And from an 'Alberta conservative' I would never have expected itSmiley SurprisedSmiley Wink (let the Yanks guess what that meansSmiley Very Happy)

 

Maybe the population is not in quite so much denial now as they used to be. I have seen some polls indicating over 50% think higher taxes are the answer.