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Red Steele
Senior Contributor

Good Question

Just like Obama ran against GW Bush in 2008, rather than against John McCain, the current crop of lefties is all about being against some rather intellectually challenged mother that is not even currently an elected official.

 

I know that my first thoughts on Saturday were not about Sarah Palin. Makes me wonder what the country would be like currently if John McCain would have picked Condi Rice to be his token female.

tomtoolbag
Veteran Advisor

Re: Interesting comment that you made....

  I'm convinced more each day that we made the right decision to forbid video games in the house, and unlimited/unsupervised access of the internet too, along with no TVs in their rooms. The constant and repeated violence in those video games and on TV isn't healthy at all, and we're glad that our kids are entertained by working and things that are mentally challenging.

  I remember when I think it was Columbine(can't remember exactly because there have been so many) when myself and a co-worker stopped off to eat at a tavern after a project meeting, and the news was glorifying the whole tragedy. We both agreed then that with all the hype and attention of the incident that we'd definitely see more of it, but we both hoped that we weren't right about that.

dagwud
Senior Contributor

Re: Reasons and excuses

From what I have gathered the judge was not a targeted assassination but a simple case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I doubt the killer knew who the judge was nor cared.  The judge knew Rep. Giffords and dropped by for a quick stop to say hello while on his way home from church. 

 

You bring up some good discussion points Tom.  Has society gotten more violent and does society now place less value on human life?   And if so are there certain factors attributing to it?  Violent laced song lyrics, heavy doses of graphic violence in movies, tv and realistic video games? Some suggest even having legal on demand abortions cheapens life in society.  Communicating through eletronic gadgets as opposed to seeing people face to face and no longer knowing ones neighbors?  I don't think you can easily pin point exactly what it is the motivates these people to go bezerk.  In a free open society it is hard to control every things kids are now exposed to.  One thing that bothers me is what Tom mentioned amount the 24/7 media hype of such tragedies as a way to boost ratings.  I like the comment that I heard from John McCain where he described Loughner as an embarrassment for the city, the state of Arizona and the country.  I think some of these individuals that carry out these horrendous crimes are looking forward to all the media attention and hype.  I would prefer much less reporting in favor of short news reports on any new news worth reporting and to have society and the media to dwell on what an embarrassment and tragedy this is for our country and the importance of treating mental illness.   Try to keep it from becoming a circus and something less desireable for these sick people. 

 

While more deadly guns with higher capacity clips are more common now days, I would think today's kids are exposed less to guns then in during our parents and grandparents generation.  Back then more kids grew on farms and had family that hunted where as now days more people live in cities and I'm guessing own less guns and have less hunters in the family.

 

I wondered about Unabomber  defense attorney, Judy Clarke being named as the public defender when I first heard it on the news.  The report I heard said all local public defenders had excused themselves for conflict of interest since they all knew the judge killed.   I have not heard a reason why Clarke was brought in as a public defender or if she called them and offered her services.   Does she get the same pay as the typical public attorneys? 

 

I see where Arizona is one of only about 5 states who's law allows a person to found guilty by reason of insanity and sent to a mental institution instead of prison but the person will not then be set free if later is deemed cured like most states do.  In Arizona if the person is later deemed cured of their insanity they are then transferred to prison to serve out their sentences which I'm guessing would be life if Loughner is able to escape the federal death penalty for killing of the federal judge.

greenhouse man
Senior Contributor

Re: Interesting comment that you made....


@tomtoolbag wrote:

  I'm convinced more each day that we made the right decision to forbid video games in the house, and unlimited/unsupervised access of the internet too, along with no TVs in their rooms. The constant and repeated violence in those video games and on TV isn't healthy at all, and we're glad that our kids are entertained by working and things that are mentally challenging.

  I remember when I think it was Columbine(can't remember exactly because there have been so many) when myself and a co-worker stopped off to eat at a tavern after a project meeting, and the news was glorifying the whole tragedy. We both agreed then that with all the hype and attention of the incident that we'd definitely see more of it, but we both hoped that we weren't right about that.


Good points, but I have to wonder if parents weren't just more involved back in the old days. I think violence has always been possible for many kids.... The difference is the parents back then would have done everything to help or punish the kid if needed. There were consequences for your actions then.... Now you get away with alot before you really get in trouble. At my local elementary school my kids go to most parents don't care and blame teachers for their kids actions. I hate to see what happens to these kids when they are older. I just pray this helps others to get a family member some help if they know there is a problem. Parents now are to concerned with being liked by there kids. I grew up with my step dad who was my "real"  father. My dad wanted a buddy, not a son. Buddies are easier to handle than kids. He was the best bad example I could have ever gotten. I hated my step father for being strict, but now I really see who cared about me. My dad was a sperm donor.... Nothing more. I wish he was still alive so we could start over, but he wasted his life on the "now" and he died alone in another state.

r3020
Senior Contributor

Re: Interesting comment that you made....


@tomtoolbag wrote:

  I'm convinced more each day that we made the right decision to forbid video games in the house, and unlimited/unsupervised access of the internet too, along with no TVs in their rooms. The constant and repeated violence in those video games and on TV isn't healthy at all, and we're glad that our kids are entertained by working and things that are mentally challenging.

  I remember when I think it was Columbine(can't remember exactly because there have been so many) when myself and a co-worker stopped off to eat at a tavern after a project meeting, and the news was glorifying the whole tragedy. We both agreed then that with all the hype and attention of the incident that we'd definitely see more of it, but we both hoped that we weren't right about that.


Good post.

Canuck_2
Veteran Advisor

Re: What?


@bruce MN wrote:

I've been here over a decade now and alot of people have come and gone, and some even to resurface after leaving with new handles and in my recollection there hasn't been anyone who comes close to Canuck 2 in terms of  "understading the complexities" of things.

 

Now if you are saying, in effect, that there is some codified insides scoop on "the way things really are" and he's not responding as you'd wish he would, that he just "doesn't get it" when he doesn't show that he can be influenced by some ultra-exclusive common sense, street wisdom that blue collar conservatives are absolutley convinced that they have the corner on......it is because he is smart enough not to need that sort of mental masturbation and self delusion. Wont let dogma and prejudice in.

 

I've seen just about everybody who ever spent much time here bite on something and have to talk it back. Almost every one of us , that is, except for him.


Thanks for the vote of confidence bruce.

I am sure you have heard my theory that there is seldom a statement,view or opinion that is solidly black or white in reality but rather just shades of grey.

Mine included.

Canuck_2
Veteran Advisor

Re: Reasons and excuses


@tomtoolbag wrote:

  To have a couple of politicians targeted isn't too far of a stretch of the imagination, but to me the REALLY disturbing part is that the guy shot a child(a 9 year old girl) and some elderly folks that to most people would seem, and be considered harmless or not a threat. He apparently did that after shooting the congresswoman and judge, and there obviously wasn't a reason at all for it. I'm not saying that the congresswoman and judge deserved it at all, but considering their position and today's politics, I'm not surprised.

  The media have managed to make this whole incident a 3-ring circus, with the applicable blame trying to be placed upon people, whether justified or not. The media has crowned their very own heroes and has put this front and center non-stop. The odd coincidence of the high profile atty showing up brings more questions than answers. But, one nutjob's acts out of 308 million people, and we ALL will(and have) suffer the consequences of HIS actions. From the over-reactive response in the political arena, to implying that we all should keep an eye on our neighbor to see if they are ready to snap.

  Yes, it was a tragedy, and he had obvious signs of problems that more than likely led up to his acts, but the constant promotion by the media only encourages people to act/react in this way again. We have a lot of guns in this society, and access to one by anybody legally or not, isn't too hard. This incident is just another in a long list of those where people act out this way when they feel they were cheated, abused or neglected or other. The scene of a person shooting up their former co-workers or such and then killing themselves shows how far our society has sunk in terms of what people think of human life, and even their own life.


Well put Tom.

Just think if people and your media now tried to find solutions to at least reduce happenings like this.

BTW as I understand, his gun was legally obtained but then almost no one could own a gun illegally in Arizona 

Canuck_2
Veteran Advisor

Re: people think of human life


@Red Steele wrote:

"how far our society has sunk in terms of what people think of human life".

 

I would ask every card carrying democrat that posts on this forum to think about that statement.

 

Put it away, come back to it...think about it some more.

 

I have some obvious comments about it, but will save them for later.

 

I think Tom inadvertantly nailed the whole crux of what is ailing America.


Hey Red do you have numbers from the USA but I am sure the murder rate in Canada has been falling on a per capita basis.

We often like to look back at the 'good old days' fondly and sometimes they just were not all that 'good' compared to now.

tomtoolbag
Veteran Advisor

Re: Interesting comment that you made....

  Kids are usually an extension of their parents or at the very least a copy of their parents. I know that I treat our kids like I was treated because that's the only example I know, but we do other things or small changes that our parents did/didn't do. Bad kids inevitably turn into bad parents later down the road. But, times when we were younger were different in terms of technology and such, but also because of both parents usually working too. My dad and both grandpas had a way of treating me that I practically begged to do some work or what they were doing. I find myself doing the same thing to our son and he'll work his butt off because he wants to do something adult or be like me.

  We were at a neighbor's house recently and their son which is about 9 was showing me his video game and the combat game while also playing it. I felt that as an adult that I should explain to him that it was a game and that he shouldn't think that shooting even people while playing a video game is fun, and that guns can and do hurt people. I went to his school once because his class was doing something about Veteran's Day and I really tried to explain that there's no glory or anything good about having to shoot or even kill someone. I think that today's kids are growing up in a culture that because of boredom, lack of supervision or even lack of teenage jobs, they occupy their time with things that really aren't healthy at all. We work our kids pretty hard, whether it's making them cook and clean on a rotating basis(with us too) or working in the garden. Heck, I even cut the cord off of the TV and put an adapter cord on it so we can take it any time we want.

  If there's one thing that we've learned is that kids have A LOT OF ENERGY, and we both feel that if they don't expend their energy positively, they probably would negatively. Make them tired so they sleep and eat good, and when they're awake make their time productive to themselves and others in some way or another.

tomtoolbag
Veteran Advisor

Re: Reasons and excuses

  I'm not confident that it won't happen again because at this time there's a shameless "ceremony" going on and a whole lot of self-promotion right now by our president and every possible politician. This will only encourage the next person to get their moment of fame, because bad attention is still attention. That nutjob is basking in the hoopla and all the commotion that he caused. He didn't "go out in a blaze of glory" with a gun-fight or such, but he got his fame and attention regardless.