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Senior Contributor

Re: Republican plan

Hey Hobby, the difference in farm subsidies and social security is most farmers will say  "do away with `em they`ve done their job, we`re all rich now!"  SS recipients say "It`s MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW!!!" .   Totally do away with farm subsidies and you run the government 3 days,  totally do away with social security and........YOU SOLVE THE BUDGET DEFICIT PROBLEM!!!....of course I`m NOT advocating that be done.  I was filling my pickup last fall and a area retired farm couple pulled up in their motorhome, gonna head south. Now they collect way over $100,000 in land rent, net worth of at least $5 million and they`re....Democrats. They were chortling over a story they read about W Bush having secret service guard his Crawford ranch. They said taxpayer money will go for the agents to help him "pull calves, terrible just terrible".  In real life I`m very polite, but I was thinking "you two clowns are really livin` it up all that and collecting two fat social security checks on top of it all" Good for them.

Senior Contributor

Re: Republican plan

Hey Canuck, I did a quick check and I think after someone reaches 66 they can earn all they want without paying back benefits, they may have taxes on it though depending on alot of things. Many retired folks structured their income as capital gains (lower tax rate) and such to get around the earned income.  All I know is there are some that really need that extra income and they actually could use a raise. And many others are just living high on the hog with it.  Just my prediction, nothing meaningfull will be done and the gov`t will have to create monopoly money to fund these Ponzi schemes.

Senior Advisor

Re: Republican plan

Can you imagine how long a social security plan would last if a large number of contributors (wealthy) knew that they would never be eligilbe for benefits?:

 

Another point;  If wealthy contributors to social security are inelgible for benefits then it means that they are veing taxed only to pay someone else. So that indicates alarge charitable contribution from ordinary earners to the less sucessful or less fortunate. I thought you guys were against wealth distribution?

 

Secondly if it is only a charitable gift thern why orordinary income producers the only one to contribute to that charity. Why  aren't investors forced to pay 12.5 percent of their income to support that charity. Should you or I or people like us be the only ones taxed to provide SS benefits for the poor.

 

You know i have paid into Social secuirity since I was 15 years old. I got a job scooping corn for a trucker and he would not pay my wages until I got a SS number. We are talking about alousy $40 for a weeks work and he wouldn't pay me. The law allowed me to draw a full retirement benefit at age 65.5.  That is a total of 50.5 years of donations. Since i have draw SS and kept my business going. In the 5.5 years since then I have drawn benefits kept farming and paying taxes and another 5.5 years of paying in SS benefits. That totals out tyo 56 years of exposure to Social security taxes. How long should I have to pay in before you think I am eligible to get part of it back?

 

Btw I could have taken a early benefit at age 62 which will probably deliver more dollars in benefits than waiting to the full retirment age. But in our instance our income was good and we worked for a higher benefit at a later time. I'm drawing more but won't draw as long. Meanwhile i am still contributing a sizable amount in fica taxes.

 

One day the baby boom scenario will play out and we will have a better stablized SS system.  There will be a more orderly expansion of beneficiaries instead of the glut of beneficiaries coming on at one time. So the secret is increased revenues over along period of time to keep it in play until that time come.

 

The only thing that can destroy SS is people losing the commitment to it. Reagan pushed retirment age back modestly and increase SS taxes. That is what built up the trust fund for the baby boomers. 2.5 trillion in the SS trust fund to make SS solvent until 2037 is the current figure. It used to be 2042 but this recession has cut down revenues.

 

So everything depends on getting people back to work. But punishing seniors and the poor and unemployed is simply attacking the weakest. Making them pay for deficits that weren't created by them. But then Your folks were never for SS or medicare and they would love to kill it now. But you don't see them mention that their salaries and oensions should be cut as well. We cannot afford SS and medicare but we can sure as hell afford another tax cut for mr. got bucks.

 

 

 

 

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Senior Contributor

Re: Republican plan

Oh I agree absolutely Don, the wealthy would revolt if they thought they had to pay with no benefits, they aren`t a generous as I  Smiley Happy . I got news for `em though when the printing presses start really rolling we`ll all be SoL.  Some rainy day figure out how much you`ve paid into SS and the date you`ll start drawing out more than what you`ve paid in, it will surprise you. Of course those dollars you put in 50 years ago are each worth $30 today after inflation. There are poor retired folks that really do need that monthly check to insure they continue those checks we need to perform triage and funnel to those in need. Raising taxes is not the answer, no matter what you do with rates 20% of GDP is the maximum amount you`ll ever squeeze out of the taxpayers.  Killing the golden goose comes to mind.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Republican plan


@BA Deere wrote:

Hey Canuck, I did a quick check and I think after someone reaches 66 they can earn all they want without paying back benefits, they may have taxes on it though depending on alot of things. Many retired folks structured their income as capital gains (lower tax rate) and such to get around the earned income.  All I know is there are some that really need that extra income and they actually could use a raise. And many others are just living high on the hog with it.  Just my prediction, nothing meaningfull will be done and the gov`t will have to create monopoly money to fund these Ponzi schemes.


I was not suggesting paying back any pension but rather a progressive tax system that taxes income at higher rates as income rises.

That way any $ taken in at higher amounts would be 'clawed back' to a greater amount than from someone who had little or no other income.

Net result is government gets much of pension back in tax from those who do not need it and no need for a 'means test' which always leads to bad feelings and abuse.

I presume you have a policing system in place to look for tax abuse unlike Greece.

There seems to be a big difference in your SS from our Old Age Security since our OAS is from general tax revenue, no one paid any tax specificaly towards it.

We do have a government run pension plan that pays out only according to what you paid in but that is separate from the OAS. The Canada Pension Plan is of course counted as income like all other pensions, rental income etc. and so would influence what, if any, OAS supplement that is paid based on income tax return. That is, in that way, a means test but done automatically from previous years tax return so not very obvious.

Senior Contributor

Re: Republican plan

Heh, heh, heh  No Thanks Canuck, higher tax rates to `claw back` the wealthy`s social security would also claw back their `sweated for` money.  Higher tax rates are just a wealth redisribution scheme, those claw back taxes would even hurt the wealthy 75 yr old that never signed up for SS and never took a dime. Means testing would be fair but too many of these ten cent millionaires think it`s their money!!! and not the welfare system that it really is........Fire up the printing presses Marge!!! 

Veteran Advisor

Re: Republican plan


@BA Deere wrote:

Heh, heh, heh  No Thanks Canuck, higher tax rates to `claw back` the wealthy`s social security would also claw back their `sweated for` money.  Higher tax rates are just a wealth redisribution scheme, those claw back taxes would even hurt the wealthy 75 yr old that never signed up for SS and never took a dime. Means testing would be fair but too many of these ten cent millionaires think it`s their money!!! and not the welfare system that it really is........Fire up the printing presses Marge!!! 


I am not sure exactly how your system works but from other posts I get the impression your SS is paid to those who paid into it. Is that correct or am I mistaken?

If your 75 year old never signed up then SS is not true welfare it would be more like a pension where you opt in or out.???

 

Progressive taxation is a theory of sharing the wealth. If you do not have that then your country is in a group that has underlying problems either now or developing as the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

That leads to only one final outcome and lots of examples of that in the mid east right now.

Senior Contributor

Re: Republican plan

I found that in 1935 when it was started there were 16 workers for each SS recipient, today it`s 3 workers. Warren Buffet first or second richest person in America collects $1900 a month in social security. You`re a logical fellow Canuck, isn`t that a recipie for disaster?  ....Of course someone can chose to not collect social security or welfare or kid`s reduced school lunches even if they more than qualify.  Social Security isn`t called welfare but it is, it just gives everyone even Warren Buffet a taste to keep support for the program.  Also I supose there`s a element of reducing societal stigma if everyone from the richest to poorest is at the trough.  You`re `sharing the wealth` theory, how are people motivated to work if you take away their greed?

Senior Contributor

Re: Republican plan

You really are a bitter individual , words ,are cheap "do away with 'em" they've done there job.  Remember there voluntary no one makes you sign other than greed,    HeXX you and others compalin about unemployment checks food stamps and every other thing to wine about. but you in to line pockects with tax dollars  Corn and beans this morning in elevator are $6.54 and 13.25  fall contract corn $ 5.48 , beans at $12.25 and with those prices  the FSA lot full of recipents signing up .  Next stop ins off is for govt paid crop ins handout.  With these prices present and future whose the one riping tax payers off a  jobless recipent  or a farmer buying six figure equipment and  land  while taking tax  dollars   With that said  your all over  that couple and their $100,000 rent money and who give that to them  farmers along with the aid farm welfare subsidies.   Dosen't make any different whether a farmer is dem or repub both are on the public pay role.  Would you not be a example a repub farmer  hating govt spending but in turn enjoy the fruits of that spending 

Senior Contributor

Re: Republican plan

I`ve never begrudged the unemployed or those on food stamps, say help them more!  Let`s say all farmers didn`t sign up for the program, the government would save $10 billion, the way Obama is blowing money of late, that savings would be gone by 3 pm today.  Don`t give money to alcoholics!!! they just use it to destroy their lives even more.  All I`m saying about those collecting $100,000 plus rent checks and wintering in the south with a $200k Winnebago, there are those more needy of their social security welfare check, that`s all I`m saying....More power to `em.