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r3020
Senior Contributor

Re: Still not sure about why so many are upset about body scanners

The wire tapping has stopped terrorist. TSA has not.

Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)
Veteran Advisor

Re: Strip-Search USA

When U.S soldiers with nail clippers and flight attendants who've survived breast cancer are treated as potential terrorists, you know the TSA is "acting stupidly." Yet the administration thinks everything is fine.

Imagine the department of motor vehicles with cattle prods, and you're close to the mentality exhibited by Transportation Safety Administration chief John Pistole on CNN's "State of the Union" show Sunday. He told host Candy Crowley that what the Israelis have "is top-notch security," but the U.S. won't use these techniques because America does not profile.

Excuse us? The U.S. won't use what the world's No. 1 terrorist target has shown to be effective because it's allegedly discriminatory, but is willing to strip-search grandmas and little children at random? This is cruelty and inefficiency raised to a science.

On Saturday, President Obama called the full-body scanners and groin checks being performed "a huge inconvenience for all of us."

He said, "In the aftermath of the Christmas Day bombing, our TSA personnel are properly under enormous pressure to make sure that you don't have somebody slipping on a plane with some sort of explosive device on their persons." Like cancer survivors with prosthetic breasts?

As tennis star John McEnroe might put it, Mr. President, you cannot be serious. The Israelis manage to avoid disaster by checking the passenger lists, doing background checks on prospective fliers and personally interviewing those they deem suspicious.

They do not disrobe their passengers looking for the explosive device du jour. They focus on who might be carrying explosives, not on the objects themselves. They profile, Mr. President, they profile. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab never would have been allowed in the same ZIP code as an El Al aircraft.

What's next? Full-body cavity searches? As columnist Ann Coulter relates, last year an assassin attempting to murder Prince Mohammed bin Nayef of Saudi Arabia blew himself up with a bomb stuck where suppositories normally go. Luckily, he didn't try to board an American aircraft this Thanksgiving or all air travelers would probably have to bend over and cough.

We are trying terrorists in civilian courts because we're trying to show the world our system of justice protects everybody's rights. Yet as a TSA thug told John Tyner, the young man who thought touching his "junk" was unreasonable: "By buying your ticket, you gave up a lot of rights." If we've surrendered this and other rights, just what are we fighting to protect in the war on terror?

Flight attendant and breast cancer survivor Cathy Bossi, who works for U.S. Airways, opted out of the body scanner for fear of possible radiation. "What is this?" she was asked during her "pat-down." "It's my prosthesis," she told the TSA agent, "because I've had breast cancer." "Well," the agent replied, "you'll need to show me that." So she removed he prosthesis for the agent.

Thomas Sawyer, a retired teacher on his way to a wedding, wears pants two sizes too big to accommodate the urostomy attached to an opening in his stomach. In the "enhanced pat-down," a TSA agent broke the seal, and it leaked over Sawyer's body and clothing.

Then there were the 100 Indiana National Guardsmen returning from duty in Afghanistan who were forced to exit their plane during a stop. They were all carrying unloaded M4 Carbines and M-240B machine guns. One had his tool kit confiscated and had to give up his nail clippers because a soldier on his way home from protecting his country might use them to take over the aircraft.

Mr. President, this is more than an inconvenience. This is barbaric, inhumane, unnecessary and arguably unconstitutional. It's a sad day when Khalid Sheik Mohammed has a greater presumption of innocence than American soldiers and the civilians they fight and die to protect.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/ArticlePrint.aspx?id=554575&p=1

 

tomexrepub
Senior Contributor

Re: Strip-Search USA

milligan, you had a US soldier commit a massacre against his fellow troops and it would be pretty easy to conceal explosives in a breast prosthesis.   (will apologize for possibly not spelling the word correctly).  you approved of warrantless wiretaps under the previous administration to protect this country.   What civil liberties are being violated with scans and pat downs?  unlike the wiretaps where everyone in the US could be listened to, only people that are traveling by air are required to be scanned.  they have a choice to either fly or not fly, with the wiretaps, citizens did not have that choice.   

 

yeah I can hear you now if a plane gets blown up that this administration did not do enough to protect its citizens.  you are a joke just like the rest of the right wing goons on here.

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Strip-Search USA

All anyone who has these problems that you mentioned has to do is inform the TSA people and special considerations can be made.  How can anyone possible know about something hidden under clothes?  If there is something that the agent should know about especially if it is possibly delicate as was the colostomy bag then for sure I would be letting that person know before something bad happened.  As for the scanners, the viewing screen isn't anywhere that can be seen by the public, it is a fuzzy picture at best and the person viewing it can't see the person being scanned.  You guys are only upset because of it is under a democratic administration.  When over 80% of the country is in favor of things like this, you are way off base and it shows very clearly that it is all political.  As Harry Callahan would say, "Feeling lucky today?"  Go fly somewhere!

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Still not sure about why so many are upset about body scanners

Can you prove that statement?  You don't know if it has or not because they don't release that info because it is classified.

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Still not sure about why so many are upset about body scanners

What good does the internal wiretapping do if the terrorists are overseas?  Why haven't you left yet?

Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)
Veteran Advisor

Re: Strip-Search USA


@tomgetsdrunk@thepub wrote:

milligan, you had a US soldier commit a massacre against his fellow troops

...and what did this "soldier" have in common with all of the other terrorists???.....yes, that is right.....he is a muslim, that has had known contact with radical clerics.

 and it would be pretty easy to conceal explosives in a breast prosthesis.  

It is also possible for a determined suicide killer to have the explosives surgically placed in their body cavity and have the female organs removed to make room.  Anything is possible.  However, if you profiled for MUSLIM people, you would have your search targets narrowed down by a Thousand Percent!!!

(will apologize for possibly not spelling the word correctly). 

(You did fine....better than most on here of the liberal persuasion)

 you approved of warrantless wiretaps under the previous administration to protect this country.  

Wire taps of known terrorists yield much information that is used to defeat the enemy.  The strip searches only yield laughter of/by the enemy as a whole.

What civil liberties are being violated with scans and pat downs? 

Read the 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution.

unlike the wiretaps where everyone in the US could be listened to, only people that are traveling by air are required to be scanned.  they have a choice to either fly or not fly, with the wiretaps, citizens did not have that choice. 

Selective ethics???  Why does it bother you if the government listens to what you say, verses you not minding if they go roaming through your genitalia???  

 

yeah I can hear you now if a plane gets blown up that this administration did not do enough to protect its citizens.

If a plane does get blown up, it is because the Government did not profile the list of passengers beforehand.

  you are a joke just like the rest of the right wing goons on here.

I bet you liked the "joke" that we handed you on Election Day, didn't ya???  Actually, the joke is that you probably like getting groped at the Airport, as it is the closest thing that you get to call "going on a date".


 

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Strip-Search USA

Why don't you make that argument against metal detectors?  The 4th talks about UNREASONABLE searches.  I don't think the safety of the flying public is unreasonable.  I would say that the warrantless wiretapping of the nations communication routes is a very direct violation of the 4th, most certainly a violation of FISA

 

"All wiretapping of American citizens by the National Security Agency requires a warrant from a three-judge court set up under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. After the 9/11 attacks, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which granted the President broad powers to fight a war against terrorism. The George W. Bush administration used these powers to bypass the FISA court and directed the NSA to spy directly on al Qaeda in a new NSA electronic surveillance program. Reports at the time indicate that an "apparently accidental" glitch resulted in the interception of communications that were purely domestic in nature.[2] This action was challenged by a number of groups, including Congress, as unconstitutional.

The exact scope of the program is not known, but the NSA is or was provided total, unsupervised access to all fiber-optic communications going between some of the nation's major telecommunication companies' major interconnect locations, including phone conversations, email, web browsing, and corporate private network traffic. [3]. Critics said that such "domestic" intercepts required FISC authorization under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.[3] The Bush administration maintained that the authorized intercepts are not domestic but rather foreign intelligence integral to the conduct of war and that the warrant requirements of FISA were implicitly superseded by the subsequent passage of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists(AUMF).[4] FISA makes it illegal to intentionally engage in electronic surveillance under appearance of an official act or to disclose or use information obtained by electronic surveillance under appearance of an official act knowing that it was not authorized by statute; this is punishable with a fine of up to $10,000 or up to five years in prison, or both.[5] In addition, the Wiretap Act prohibits any person from illegally intercepting, disclosing, using or divulging phone calls or electronic communications; this is punishable with a fine or up to five years in prison, or both.[6]

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales confirmed the existence of the program, first reported in a December 16, 2005, article in The New York Times.[7][8] The Times had posted the exclusive story on their website the night before, after learning that the Bush administration was considering seeking a Pentagon-Papers-style court injunction to block its publication.[9] Critics of The Timeshave alleged that executive editor Bill Keller had withheld the story from publication since before the 2004 Presidential election, and that the story that was ultimately published by The Times was essentially the same as reporters James Risen and Eric Lichtblau had submitted in 2004.[10] In a December 2008 interview with Newsweek, former Justice Department employee Thomas Tamm revealed himself to be the initial whistle-blower to The Times.[11]"

tomtoolbag
Veteran Advisor

Re: Still not sure about why so many are upset about body scanners

  Believe me, I've been against the wiretapping since day one. I don't buy into the theory of just doing SOMETHING, even if it's wrong. I remember quite well every republican that I know repeating the right wing talking point or response to my objections that ; "if you don't have anything to worry about, why is it a problem". Yeah, those same republicans claim to not have voted for Bush, NOW.

  But, I have a few friends that work at O'Hare airport, and have for 25+ years, and some that don't anymore. They tell me of the ridiculous things that they have had to go through while never leaving their employer or where they work at, but new-hires don't even begin to have to do the same things. Factor in the antiquated air traffic control systems, equipment failures and such, then also the repercussions of the hype or overreactions from it and that's why. If I was one of the unlucky saps stuck in a plane on the runway all day like what happened a few times a couple of years ago, MY time on that plane would have been an hour at most. There was also a few incidents of people doing things or behaving relatively stupid and they turned the plane around and screwed up everyone's travel, and with some added costs. They have pretty much give up on the Air Marshal plan, which seemed to make sense too.

  Hell, we flew to Nashville a few years back and if you factor in drive time to and from the airport actual flight time, and picking up a rental car, we could have drove there quicker and cheaper.

tomtoolbag
Veteran Advisor

Re: Strip-Search USA

  So, let's see if you agree with the republican mantra to privatize everything, including the topic at hand. Here's an article about getting rid of the TSA, but not the procedures and regulations that they enforce and do. Now you no longer have that "Obama scapegoat" to fall back on, that you're trying to rely upon now. It's ironic that you continually play that worn out routine since it was the republicans that put this BS into existence in the first place.

 

Airports consider congressman's call to ditch TSA

 

Federal law allows airports to opt for screeners from the private sector instead. The push is being led by a powerful Florida congressman who's a longtime critic of the Transportation Security Administration and counts among his campaign contributors some of the companies who might take the TSA's place.

 

For Republican Rep. John Mica of Florida, the way to make travelers feel more comfortable would be to kick TSA employees out of their posts at the ends of the snaking security lines. This month, he wrote letters to nation's 100 busiest airports asking that they request private security guards instead.

"I think we could use half the personnel and streamline the system," Mica said Wednesday, calling the TSA a bloated bureaucracy.

Mica is the ranking Republican on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Once the new Congress convenes in January, the lawmaker is expected lead the committee.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101119/ap_on_go_ot/us_airport_security_private_screeners