Still waiting.

[Samnospam]

Oh you mean the answer to your question about moving on 10k. Yes you can. If its move or starve yes you can.

[GoredHusker]

Did the indians stay in one spot when the buffalo were hunted out?  Did the beaver trappers stay when the stream they were trapping in was trapped out?  I guess it really comes down to basic human nature.  Is it better to stay in a place making 10-12,000 while watching your family starve to death, or is it better to try and muster up the ability to move where there are better opportunities?  If a family is slowly but surely starving to death in their current location, I don't think they have any other choice than trying to move where there are better opportunities.  Are you suggesting they stay and starve to death? 

[GoredHusker]

What I don't understand is our entire energy policy.  China is buying huge rights to natural gas right here in the U.S.  It has been stated several times that we could be energy independant if we'd just tap into our natural gas supply and utilize engines running on natural gas.  However, it seems we're more interested in sticking with oil and ethanol while selling off our reserves of natural gas to China.  This makes absolutely zero sense to me.  It doesn't appear to me that becoming energy independant has ever been our goal. 

[schnurrbart]

You have a very good knack of answering with non-answers.  I'm sure if you had $10K, you could move anywhere BUT my question concerned IF you only MADE $10-12K/yr, could you move?  I suppose you could do like they did in the Dust Bowl days--load everything into  an old truck and pile it high and tie off with ropes and start out.  But getting that kind of money and then paying rent, food, etc wouldn't leave much at the end of the year to do much of anything else.  Things like moving is a scary thing for most people and if you aren't single, it becomes even scarier.  Much more complicated than in your black and white world.

[GoredHusker]

While I agree that moving is scary, the thought of watching loved ones starve to death is even scarier.  I don't see how in your question one can view it any differently than black or white.  You stay and starve to death, or you move where there are better opportunities.  Is there any other alternative?

[schnurrbart]

How can you if you don't have any money?  Average welfare and food stamps is about $16000/yr for a family of 4 of which $6K is in the form of food stamps.  Less than 4 receives less than that.  You can't do much else with food stamps except buy food so that leaves rent, maybe gas and insurance for the car if you have one and clothes, etc out of the $10K.  It isn't very easy.  I experienced what it means to not have any money for a year and a half while going to college.  Of course, I had "fall-back" insurance--my parents but I lived off the GI bill which at time was about $175/mo. while in school.  I paid for my car insurance, gas and a small amount of room rent in a Vets Club dorm.  I ate a Snickers bar for mid-morning "brunch" and a Big Mac for supper.  I could have probably worked but it took all my time to try to study.  Of course, whenever I went home, Mom made sure I had things for a few good meals to take home but they couldn't help me financially.  Illinois paid my tuition and books since I was a veteran.  To this day, I can't stand Snickers or Big Macs!!

[Samnospam]

A person better take.the initiative before they have absolutely no money.

[schnurrbart]

do you realize that a minimum wage job is all most of these people can ever hope to find? And that after taxes are withdrawn and child care paid for, they have way less than they would get on welfare?  You got 2-3 kids to clothe and put food in their bellies, which one are you going to take?

[BA Deere]

Hey Gored, a posibility is there`s a US policy of buying all the oil we can at "cheap" prices and keeping what we have as a emergency supply when we have our inevidable showdown with the Soviet Union, aaahh, scratch that, I mean China. As I understand it our tar-sand oil has to be heated to get it to flow, it isn`t exactly low hanging fruit.  Propane powered cars are still kind of dangerous, they might claim it`s safe but a local LP dealer is always having fires and explosions, I get the heeby-jeebys everytime I`m near the place.  What would help alot is following France`s example, going to nuclear power, where we can.

[Democratforlife]

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@schnurrbart wrote:

do you realize that a minimum wage job is all most of these people can ever hope to find? And that after taxes are withdrawn and child care paid for, they have way less than they would get on welfare?  You got 2-3 kids to clothe and put food in their bellies, which one are you going to take?

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If the couple in your example makes only minimum wage, why do they have 2-3 kids?  That is a very poor choice on their part bringing kids into this world when they know they can't pay for them.