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Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

 snip- Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born cleric who recruits jihadis from his lair in Yemen, tells the world’s English-speaking Muslims that America is at war against Islam. You can bet that Mr. Awlaki will use the opposition to the community center and mosque to try to recruit more terrorists.

  Yes! that is what jihadist use to recruit more fundimentalist-believer-in-magic fools,--> your hate mongering and all the hate mongering other dupes parroting trash from brainwashing echo chambers.  Mr. Promise-breaker Nutt's political rebel-rousing-islamophobic blundering will be ammunition for those extremists, the real extremists -->wahhbi, not some Sufi peace maker who is getting smeared by the ignorant extremists from both sides. 

Highlighted
Veteran Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

Thanks John.

 

Frank Rich expands on Kristof's excellent piece by providing timelines, pointing out personal contradictions and traces the sources of the insanity:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html?_r=1

 

 

 

Highlighted
Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

 Everyone with a brain and a Love of basic American principals and values, justice and equality, has been taking on the squawking and bleating mob the last couple days, **bleep** Cavet had a good one, also,

 

  I've seen some coverage in the Israeli media, I didn't get to read much today, but, I imagine the muslim world has seen some of the idiocy, American TV news programs are on the cables all over the world; I've been waiting to read some reaction from the conflict zones

 

  It is a bit scary how easily they whipped up their brown-shirt zombies into a high pitch of hysteria.   Next they will be marching through the streets breaking all the windows on Arab business' and homes.

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Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

Highlighted
Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

 Ron Paul---

Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill-conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

snip-

Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

 

The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam – the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society – protecting liberty.

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars.

The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding an investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque – a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law – in order to look tough against Islam.

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul690.html

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Contributor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

I'd be a whole lot more sympathetic for the Muslim cause and the building of a mosque if it weren't for stories like this:

 

 

(Reuters) - Gunmen killed 10 medical workers, including eight foreigners, in Afghanistan's remote northeast, police and officials said on Saturday, and the Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack.

 

A Christian aid group said those killed matched descriptions of members of one of its mobile eye clinics who had been traveling in northeastern Nuristan province and were heading back to Kabul after providing medical care for local Afghans.

 

Dirk Frans, executive director of the International Assistance Mission (IAM), said the group had been told the bodies of eight foreigners -- five men and three women -- and two Afghans had been recovered.

 

The 12-member team had consisted of six U.S. nationals, one British citizen, a German and four Afghans. Two Afghan staff members had escaped alive, Frans told Reuters. IAM had last had contact with the team's leader on Wednesday.

 

And this in time magazine:

 

Our cover image this week is powerful, shocking and disturbing. It is a portrait of Aisha, a shy 18-year-old Afghan woman who was sentenced by a Taliban commander to have her nose and ears cut off for fleeing her abusive in-laws. Aisha posed for the picture and says she wants the world to see the effect a Taliban resurgence would have on the women of Afghanistan, many of whom have flourished in the past few years.

 

If they want to show us how "peaceful" their religion is; then voluntarily build their mosque elsewhere.........

 

Highlighted
Veteran Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

You'd have to watch or read somethig else and I don't suppose you'd take my word for it, but EVERYBODY in the non-Murdoch/Newscorp/FOX media has been saying that for a couple of weeks now.

Highlighted
Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

  One can read similar stories about catholic gangs in Mexico murdering families, leaving headless corpses all over the place, narco-terrorists.  Using your bigoted mis-logic, all Chaolics and Mexicans are savage killers, don't need those Churches around in we-we's neighborhood.  Yah right!

  You keep your head full of neocon propaganda and it turns your mind to **bleep**t.  

Highlighted
Senior Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

Walk into a Catholic Church and show me a Priest who preaches for gang members to off some ones head.

Highlighted
Advisor

Re: Taking Bin Laden’s Side

  You can find them in places like Ireland, the former yugoslavia.  You can find them in Israel, rabbis meeting with troops, telling them the Tora instructs them to kill children if they think they could grow up to be a threat.---  http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/fundamentalism-into-the-mainstream-1.309438  snip-

Fundamentalism into the mainstream Fundamentalist rabbis have approved murder, attacks on Arabs, illegal land seizures and racist segregation, and have ignored the murder of a prime minister.

By Zvi Bar'el

 

 snip-c

First, the daily lesson: "A soldier who takes part in the war against us, but does so only because he is forced to by threats, is an absolute villain .... We are referring to any sort of participation in the war: a combat soldier, a support soldier, civilian assistance or any form of encouragement and support." And: "Even if civilians are tied up or imprisoned and have no choice but to stay and serve as hostages, it is possible to kill them."

Also: "In discussions on the killing of infants and children ... it is reasonable to harm children if it is clear they will grow up to harm us. Under such circumstances they should be the ones targeted." And finally: "There is no need to discuss the question of who is and is not innocent, just as when we are defending against evil we do not hesitate to strike at limbs that were not actually used in actions against us."

  Their are crazies in all religions

These are quotes from the book "The King's Torah" ("Torat Hamelech" ) by rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur;       

 Many important rabbis have supported the two rabbis, and these quotes are part of the reason they are being investigated for suspected incitement and racism. Their refusal to be questioned allegedly was based on the fact that no one should be questioned or tried for his opinion.

In essence, their refusal places the law of the Torah above the law of the state. Rabbi Dov Lior, who backed the book, explained his opposition to their being interrogated as follows: "The harassment of the rabbis because of their halakhic views stands in direct opposition to the principles of freedom of religion and expression that are accepted by the state." Indeed, is it possible to accuse someone of hating gentiles? In a Jewish state?

Nothing new, so far. Fundamentalist rabbis have approved murder, attacks on Arabs and their property, the illegal takeover of land, racist segregation between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi female pupils, and have ignored (at least ) the murder of a prime minister. After all, the source of authority of those same rabbis, the book of books, is full of hair-raising descriptions of the vengeance exacted by the Children of Israel on the peoples of this land.

As for the humanity of "the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate Me," killer of the Egyptian firstborn, we can hold a seminar or two. Thumbing their noses at the law of the state is not an invention by Lior or similar rabbis. As far as disrespecting the law is concerned, Lior is an excellent pupil of Rabbi Moshe Levinger. Only naivete or pretending can explain the surprise at the spitting in the face of the police as they try to investigate the rabbis who provided a wall of defense to abomination.

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