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Senior Advisor

Re: Tanks and planes to Egypt? Paid for by the American taxpayer?

@johnaa wrote:

   Perhaps you should learn some history from reading, instead of sitting on your brain in front of TVs.  



Where ever muslim go sharia is sure to follow.


Senior Contributor

Re: Where the money came from

I still say that they return part of the total aid package as payment for these planes and other  armament.  Notice the BOLD word in the first sentence.


The Egyptian government wants to buy another 24 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft, associated parts, weapons, and equipment to modernize its air force. The October 2009 request, made through the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) to Congress, could be worth as much as $3.2 billion to Lockheed Martin and the other contractors involved. The formal request came a few months after the Obama administration conveyed its support for Egypt’s long-standing request to buy the Block 50/52 aircraft.

The Egyptian Air Force is the 4th largest F-16 operator in the world, musteringabout 195 F-16s of 220 ordered. Their overall fighter fleet is a mix of high-end F-16s and Mirage 2000s, low-end Chinese F-7s (MiG-21 copy) bought from the Chinese, a few F-4 Phantom II jets, and upgraded but very aged Soviet MiG-21s and French Mirage 5s.

Egypt’s F-16s

Contracts & Key Events


2011 – 2012

Main F-16 contract. Internal turmoil.

EAF F-16C over Cairo Protests

2011: EAF F-16C over

Cairo protests

(click to view full)

Dec 17/12: 20 F-16s. Lockheed Martin Corp. in Fort Worth, TX receives a $563 million contract modification for 20 F-16 Block 52s: 16 F-16Cs and 4 F-16Ds. Work will be performed in Fort Worth, TX, and is expected to be complete by Sept 30/14. The AFLCMC/WWMK at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH manages the contract on behalf of their Foreign Military Sales client. The USAF has confirmed to us that the customer is Egypt (FA8615-10-C-6051, PZ0022).

This contract builds on the $213 million purchase of long-lead items announced on March 2/10, for an announced total of $786 million. The first 4 jets are supposedly set for delivery on Jan 22/13. See alsoFox Business News.

Main contract: 20 F-16s


Dec 15-17/12: Egypt’s proposed constitution is ahead by a small margin after votes are counted in half the country, though polling oversight has been sketchy. The 57/42 split is almost certain to widen, however, after votes come in from the other half of the country. That was the pattern in earlier elections, where the more rural areas not only voted for the Muslim Brotherhood, but voted for extreme Salafist parties. Foreign Policy has an interesting look at the referendum data. Meanwhile, Talaat Ibrahim has resigned as Egypt’s top prosecutor in the face of strong opposition within the judicial system, less than a month after Morsi appointed him to the post as part of his November decrees. Foreign Policy | Al Bawaba | AP via Washington Post | Deutsche Welle | Canada’s National PostOnIslam | Britain’s The Telegraph. Mideast expert Barry Rubin provides the least optimistic view.

Dec 9-10/12: Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi annuls the decree expanding his powers, but a referendum on his controversial draft constitution will still go ahead as planned on Dec 15/12. The backpeddaling comes in the wake of sustained public protests that have included the burning of buildings. The Egyptian military finally issued a public statement that they would protect the people from violence, and urged both sides to settle matters through negotiation. Implicit: “or else”. BBC | Sky News.

Nov 22/12: Pharaoh? Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi, of the Islamic Brotherhood, issues a series of decrees giving him nearly unlimited powers to enact laws and decrees without recourse or appeal, and removing Egypt’s judiciary from any role in the Islamist proposals for a new constitution based on Shariah Law. The decrees kick off huge demonstrations of 200,000+ people in Tahrir Square, and Egypt’s judges and prosecutors go on strike. Morsi’s response is to call a Dec 15/12 referendum on the new constitution, amid large, organized counter-protests by his supporters. AP | France24 | Russia Today | Turkish Weekly | UAE’s The National | UK’s Sky News.


2009 – 2010

Recon pods, ACES ECM, engines.

EAF F-16C Block 40s

EAF F-16Cs

(click to view full)

Oct 9/09: Egypt’s official DSCA request[PDF] involves up to 24 of Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft, with conformal fuel tanks to extend range. Their exact block number would be determined by Egypt’s engine choice. They chose Pratt & Whitney’s F100-PW-229, and can order up to 30 engines. Pratt & Whitney beat GE’s F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPE), and so these EAF F-16s will be Block 52 fighters. Built-in equipment will include:


  • 30 Northrop Grumman APG-68v9s, the most advanced mechanically-scanned array radars for the F-16, and standard for these models. The request is for 24 installed radars, and 6 spares;
  • 28 of General Dynamics’ M61 20mm Vulcan Cannons; 24 as aircraft equipment, plus 4 spares.
  • 60 LAU-129/A Common Rail Launchers; they can be fitted to the outer wingtips, and can carry AIM-9 Sidewinder or AIM-120AMRAAM radar-guided missiles;
  • 28 of BAE’s AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Systems without Mode IV;
  • 28 defensive systems sets. Raytheon’s Advanced Countermeasures Electronic Systems (ACES, ended up winning. They beat ITT’s AN/ALQ-211 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Systems (AIDEWS), which includes the AN/ALQ-187 Electronic Warfare System and the AN/ALR-93 Radar Warning Receiver. ACES win was a bit of a departure – within CENTCOM’s area of responsibility, AIDEWS had been picked for Turkish, Omani, and Pakistani F-16s.
  • 28 BAE Systems or Symetrics AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing Systems;
  • 28 AN/ARC-238 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGAR) radios without HAVE QUICK I/II;
  • 28 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation Systems (INS), with Standard Positioning Service commercial code only (as opposed to military m-code used by American F-16s);


Egypt is also asking to buy:


  • 4 reconnaissance systems: Goodrich’s DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods won, beating Lockheed Martin F-9120 Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance Systems (AARS).


  • 12 surveillance and targeting pods: either Lockheed Martin’s AN/AAQ-33 SNIPER ATP, or Northrop Grumman’s AN/AAQ-28LITENING. Despite Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel, the LITENING’s Israeli origins made Lockheed’s Sniper an almost certain winner. It won, as expected.


Sniper PANTERA Pod

Sniper ATP

(click to view full)

Accompanying services may include base construction services [emphasis DID's], support equipment, software development/integration, tanker support, ferry services, Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD), repair and return, modification kits, spares and repair parts, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, and related U.S. Government and contractor technical, engineering, and logistics support.

The principal contractor will be Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX. Other involved firms may include:


  • Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX
  • Lockheed Martin Simulation, Training, and Support in Fort Worth, TX
  • BAE Advanced Systems in Greenland, New York
  • Boeing Corporation in Seattle, Washington
  • Boeing Integrated Defense Systems in St Louis, MO; Long Beach, CA; and San Diego, CA
  • Raytheon Company in Lexington, MA and Goleta, CA
  • Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, Texas
  • Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD
  • United Technologies subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT
  • General Electric Aircraft Engines in Cincinnati, OH
  • Goodrich ISR Systems in Danbury, CT
  • L3 Communications in Arlington, TX
  • ITT Defense Electronics and Services in McLean, Virginia
  • Symetrics Industries in Melbourne, FL


These F-16s could replace older F-16A/B Block 15 machines, but competing demands make that unlikely. Egypt’s F-4 Phantom II fleet suffers from low readiness levels, and the EAF’s aged Mirage 5s and Soviet-era MiG-21s are also strong candidates for replacement. The Mirage 5s own the air base at Birma/Tanta, SE of Alexandria; while MiG-21 bases include nearby Gabel al-Basur AB, and Assouan AB (Aswan) near the famous dam and Egypt’s southern border with Sudan. Additional military construction would likely be required in order to house F-16s at any of these bases, and construction is one of the items on the DSCA request list.

Egyptian sales often involve industrial offsets and local construction, but there are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Some previous EAF F-16C/D aircraft sales have beenmanufactured in Turkey, under TAI’s partnership with Lockheed Martin.

Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Egypt involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical reviews/support, program management, and training over a period of 15 years.

F-16 request: 24 Block 50/52s plus add-ons


Aug 11/09: WikiLeaks – Chinese looking at EAF F-16s?. A cable from the US embassy in Cairo discusses end-use agreement violations by Egypt, including the incident involving the Chinese, and Egypt’s follow-up. The issues delayed this F-16 sale, but did not stop it:

“PDAS [Tom] Countryman emphasized the importance of a clear and transparent picture of Egypt’s end-use performance, including the measures being taken to prevent further violations. He noted that Egypt had more potential Section 3 violations than any other country in the world over the last several years. Cases involving the Chinese, he continued, were of particular concern (ref A)… The case involving the visit of a Chinese military official to an F-16 base (ref D), however, did raise genuine concerns about the transfer of US technology. He noted that U.S. concerns over the visit had already delayed Egypt’s request to purchase F-16 aircraft. PDAS Countryman stressed the importance of receiving a consistent story of what happened during the Chinese official’s visit

PDAS Countryman… suggested [that Egypt's] MOD agree in writing to the following actions: 1) Conduct an internal analysis of the eight potential violations to be shared with the OMC, 2) Commit to an end-use training plan, and 3) Identify one senior official as a point of contact for end-use issues… 11. (C) Subsequent to the meeting, [Egyptian Assistant Minister of Defense Mohammed] al-Assar reviewed the proposed text, but declined to sign the document… He declined to conduct an internal analysis on the end-use violations.”

Security issue


Re: Tanks and planes to Egypt? Paid for by the American taxpayer?

  Oh shriek,Scream, hate hate hate.  You're surely the most informed Orientalist in Mayberry having studied the subject thoroughly.  Why aren't you advising the pentagon?

Veteran Advisor

Re: Where the money came from

Yes, the US sends them taxpayer money, and they turn around and buy planes, tanks, etc.


So, if they get $1 billion a year in aid from US taxpayers, and then turn around and BUY $563 million worth of F-16s (the amount quoted in your link), how is that different, than my saying that the US taxpayers paid for it?


Re: Where the money came from

everything is a-ok neb---the u.s.govt. is involved

Senior Contributor

Re: Where the money came from

It's different only in that part of the money comes back to us.