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Senior Contributor

Re: Health Care Rationing or effective health care?

"Now that she needs help, you think she should be denied. Interesting!"

 

Don, your old age is compromising your ability to think or you simply choose not to.  Why don't you scream death panels while you are at it?  

 

All I'm doing is bringing up something I have seen written about by a couple of different sources.  Something that has a lot to do with our country's high cost of health care yet something of a third rail issue that no one wants to talk about.  I like you would not want my loves ones to suffer or shorten their life in any way but one has to ask is it wise to have grandma hooked up to breathing machines and other various medical appliances during a lengthy stay in the hospital when it only prolongs death by a few days or weeks?  I for one have made it clear I would never want to kept alive by a machine when my time comes and I believe many folks feel the same but neglect to make their wishes known to their family members. 

 

When these "extended" services are provided for the dying they are typically paid by health insurance companies or Medicare and Medicaid.  Guess who they get their money from to pay for these expenses? 

 

I'm sure you are not concerned about high health care costs as you no doubt believe our current health care reform will greatly reduce the cost of health care in America.

 

They must grow a lot of straw down there in Oky land as you sure like to construct straw men.

Senior Contributor

Re: Health Care Rationing or effective health care?

 You are right Dag. A little pill voluntarily of course, should be avail legally. But, what about life insurance? Should they pay full benifit to the survivors in their insured takes the pill? Or perhaps a gov. payment in lieu of a life insurance policy if the pill is consumed.

 

I agree, and think most would not want to go thru all the pain and suffering in the final days. I have read that suicide is prevelant in rest homes. The preferred method is simply refusing to eat. I can't really blame the old folks. They probably hate being in the rest home and would rather be in their own home. But, they have no choice. It would depress me greatly if I couldn't walk around my property on a daily basis and whenever I felt like it. I'd probably take the pill after a while too.

Senior Contributor

Re: Health Care Rationing or effective health care?

Careful 4wd.  Just getting folks to talk about the questionable use of health care dollars on the last few days of many of our elderly as their bodies give out will be hard enough with out bringing up another touchy issue, the right to die.   Another place where the government should not be sticking their nose in.  Repubs embarrassed themselves on this during the Terrir Shiavo case but even Dem presidents and members of Congress  seem to prefer to keep their distance on this third rail and allow the government to continue to ban assisted suicides. 

 

I believe I have mentioned this before but I had a young nephew that died from cancer at about 18 months of age.  My wife sat with the family in the hospital room during the last 24 hours of the child's life.  During that time the child was in great pain as his body retained fluids and swelled up considerably because of it.   The doctors were administering pain killers but the child still seemed to be in considerable pain.  One doctor told the family he would like to increase the dose of pain killers but had to be careful that the drugs were not the "cause of death" for a child that had but hours to live.  Makes one wonder about just what roles the family, doctor and government should all play in all this.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Health Care Rationing or effective health care?

the child still seemed to be in considerable pain.  One doctor told the family he would like to increase the dose of pain killers but had to be careful that the drugs were not the "cause of death" for a child that had but hours to live.  Makes one wonder about just what roles the family, doctor and government should all play in all this.

Many in health care will never admit it but lots of patients in the last hours or even days of a painful death succumb to what the doctor`s and nurses know is a strong dose of drugs which will hasten death if not cause it.

Thankfully many in health care still have compassion.

Senior Advisor

Re: Health Care Rationing or effective health care?

That is where you are wrong. You think you are paying to extending other people lives. They, the patients, think they paid for it them selves.

 

At your tender age if you required life saving measures would you think other policy holders are paying for your benefit or do you think that you were proactive and bought a risk sharing insurance policy?

 

That is the question and where we differ. I think that people buy coverage and when they have a claim they have earned their benefit by past participation in the insurance program whether it be private or public. They don't owe money after the claim because they were previously insured. Therefore you are not paying for coverage that they already paid for. Capice?

Senior Advisor

Re: Health Care Rationing or effective health care?

Why? Where do you think the grant money comes from for most medical research? Do you ever think?

Senior Contributor

Wikipedia on Medical Research

In the USA, about 36% or a little over a third of the money for medical research comes from government sources, according to Wikipedia.  THis means that almost two thirds of research money has been coming from private sources.

 

And to illustrate the actual amount of research progress that is accomplished, compare the costs incurred by the government Human Gennome Project ($3 BILLION) vs the amount paid by the private Celera Genomics ($300 million)in the quest to map the human genome.

 

Guess which one won the race? Celera Genomics

 

If you ever take the blinders off, and actually think, Kraft, you might realize that government is rarely the answer and most often the problem.

 

 

Senior Advisor

Re: Wikipedia on Medical Research

What you are not saying is how much government money celera genomics got to fund their research. Such high risk research could not be afforded by most companies without the government infusion of money. Why? Because the reasearch so often comes results in failure and most comapnies cannot afford to invest that kind of money without a positive return.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Wikipedia on Medical Research

Question Red.

Is there another source for funding?

That being charity organizations.

Cancer Society in Canada, for one example, is always collecting money and advertises that it is for research. Don't know, maybe it is an insignificant amount but if their ads are correct it is an example of a third source of funds.

Senior Contributor

Re: Wikipedia on Medical Research

I am not saying anything....just rebutting your stupid comment that the government is responsible for almost all the research for medical advancement.

 

They don't even spend the bulk of the money, only a third comes from government sources,  and with typical government inefficiency, the money they do spend, gets about one tenth of the effect that private sector money gets. ( And charities would be part of the private sector, too,  fwiw Canuck).

 

With all the heads up the posteriors that American statists have, from the kid on down, someone had better fund a new crop of proctolologists to help with the removal .