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wehav
Senior Contributor

The Obama legacy

 

 

"There are no excuses for the contradictions. How can it be that Bush's America understood the problem of repression in the Arab world, but Obama's America ignored it until last week? How can it be that in May 2009, Hosni Mubarak was an esteemed president whom Barack Obama respected, and in January 2011, Mubarak is a dictator whom even Obama is casting aside? How can it be that in June 2009, Obama didn't support the masses who came out against the zealot Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, while now he stands by the masses who are coming out against the moderate Mubarak?

There is one answer: The West's position is not a moral one that reflects a real commitment to human rights. The West's position reflects the adoption of Jimmy Carter's worldview: kowtowing to benighted, strong tyrants while abandoning moderate, weak ones.

Carter's betrayal of the Shah brought us the ayatollahs, and will soon bring us ayatollahs with nuclear arms. The consequences of the West's betrayal of Mubarak will be no less severe. It's not only a betrayal of a leader who was loyal to the West, served stability and encouraged moderation. It's a betrayal of every ally of the West in the Middle East and the developing world. The message is sharp and clear: The West's word is no word at all; an alliance with the West is not an alliance. The West has lost it. The West has stopped being a leading and stabilizing force around the world."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-arab-revolution-and-western-decline-1.340967

 

13 Replies
Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)
Veteran Advisor

Re: The Obama legacy


@wehav wrote:

 

 

"There are no excuses for the contradictions. How can it be that Bush's America understood the problem of repression in the Arab world, but Obama's America ignored it until last week? How can it be that in May 2009, Hosni Mubarak was an esteemed president whom Barack Obama respected, and in January 2011, Mubarak is a dictator whom even Obama is casting aside? How can it be that in June 2009, Obama didn't support the masses who came out against the zealot Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, while now he stands by the masses who are coming out against the moderate Mubarak?

There is one answer: The West's position is not a moral one that reflects a real commitment to human rights. The West's position reflects the adoption of Jimmy Carter's worldview: kowtowing to benighted, strong tyrants while abandoning moderate, weak ones.

Carter's betrayal of the Shah brought us the ayatollahs, and will soon bring us ayatollahs with nuclear arms. The consequences of the West's betrayal of Mubarak will be no less severe. It's not only a betrayal of a leader who was loyal to the West, served stability and encouraged moderation. It's a betrayal of every ally of the West in the Middle East and the developing world. The message is sharp and clear: The West's word is no word at all; an alliance with the West is not an alliance. The West has lost it. The West has stopped being a leading and stabilizing force around the world."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-arab-revolution-and-western-decline-1.340967

 


I can say with confidence that Mubarak Obama is , without a doubt, can be thought of as "Carter II", with the outcome being the same....if not worse.

bruce MN
Veteran Advisor

Re: The Obama legacy

There is one huge, HUGE difference between now and 1979. It's what we are doing here , right now.... Internet and wireless communications.

 

Had they been a part of the culture in Iran in '79 Khomeni would have been stopped cold. The general population of Iran at that time was considerably more secular and more educated than the Egyptian population is now. More like the Tunisians who sparked this whole thing. But the deposing of The Shah had left a vacuum that was easily filled by the only organized instituion that was in place at the time..the Church. That's not the situation on the ground today in Egypt...or Tunisa...the vast majorities of their populations are secular. And among the Moslems, the vast majority of them belong to moderate congregatoins and sects that would be the parellel to, say, the ELCA  or the UU as compared to fundmentalist Baptists or the CRC. The Falwells and Roberstons of Islam aren't going to prevail when the smoke clears, as they did in Iran in 1979.

 

It's almost embarrasing to see what is coming out of the necoservative and radical Zionist press and braintrusts. They are making up domesday sceneraios faster than lightning.

gough whitlam
Advisor

Re: The Obama legacy

You have missed the point slightly.  The stability reigned while ever the US paid the billions and the oil flowed freely.  But when the people decided they need a bit more of the action, all hell broke loose.  Now you say he has betrayed an ally.  You have got to be kidding.  Mubarak is nothing but an undemocratic dictator and should never have been proped up by any government.  You are so paranoid about the Democrats your thought train is now warped.

Canuck_2
Veteran Advisor

Re: The Obama legacy


@bruce MN wrote:

 

 

It's almost embarrasing to see what is coming out of the necoservative and radical Zionist press and braintrusts. They are making up domesday sceneraios faster than lightning.


Agree  bruse.

Although these people cry about their 'rights' they are all for continuing to keep others from exercising their rights.

All for supporting dictators.

Dictators who have spun the tale about the boogeyman Islamic Brotherhood while the tactics of repression has probably helped the Brotherhood. 

greenhouse man
Senior Contributor

Re: The Obama legacy


@Canuck_2 wrote:

@bruce MN wrote:

 

 

It's almost embarrasing to see what is coming out of the necoservative and radical Zionist press and braintrusts. They are making up domesday sceneraios faster than lightning.


Agree  bruse.

Although these people cry about their 'rights' they are all for continuing to keep others from exercising their rights.

All for supporting dictators.

Dictators who have spun the tale about the boogeyman Islamic Brotherhood while the tactics of repression has probably helped the Brotherhood. 


Once again, our world is too complicated for you. When will you finally see they are both the "boogey" men and we choose the lesser of two evils. I have always believed those people are damned for their "religion of peace."  You might find some Christian nuts out there that kill, but Christ died for us.... They are taught to kill for him. Its that simple. There will never be peace there. Rights? They don't give a **bleep** about rights. That place is evil. Sometimes things are less gray and more black and white.

 

Canuck_2
Veteran Advisor

Re: The Obama legacy


@greenhouse man wrote:

Once again, our world is too complicated for you. When will you finally see they are both the "boogey" men and we choose the lesser of two evils. I have always believed those people are damned for their "religion of peace."  You might find some Christian nuts out there that kill, but Christ died for us.... They are taught to kill for him. Its that simple. There will never be peace there. Rights? They don't give a **bleep** about rights. That place is evil. Sometimes things are less gray and more black and white.

 


Look at your post.

You allow "some Christian nuts" to be excused because you believe your god is right and good.

But for someone else with a different idea of god and a religion of peace they all get lumped into the same category as the'Muslim nuts'.

bruce MN
Veteran Advisor

Re: The Obama legacy

You say "That place is evil."

 

What "place" is that? Are you refering to some specific geographic area? Where is that?

Red Steele
Senior Contributor

Re: The Obama legacy

Greenhouse, you are whistling in the wind trying to say anything sensible to guys like Canuck and Bruce. They have this preconceived world view that is not going to change until someday when the fight comes to their door. "Muslims are just like everyone else...forget about how they treat their women, how they stifle other religious expression once they control a country...etc etc."

 

I think America was a much safer place when the WASP's controlled the courts, the presidency, and the military. Having a model to which the products of  controlled immigrantion could aspire to assimilate to was not a bad thing. Not to say that this was an ideal situation...not at all. Just stable.

 

Now we are in a culture where we have this tug of war between those without any judgement...ie the "non-judgemental" crowd that probably would elect Neville Chamberlain if they had a chance, even after reading history. Appeasement, no moral standards, you can go on and on. and on the other side, no doubt a hard right facist is waiting to emerge to swing the pendulum back . And that will be a bad thing, possibly a fateful moment in US history, just like it was in Germany and Italy.

 

Obama was too far a departure from what the face of America was ready for...nothing like what he campaigned to be...a good used car salesman selling a bad product. I think he will leave a very smilar legacy to that of Jimmy Carter. Probably will turn out to be a bitter old man, too. I just hope we all are granted the luxury of getting to grow old. It is not  a certainty.

 

 

bruce MN
Veteran Advisor

Re: The Obama legacy

Are you refering to the WASPs who brought in the 100s of thousands of poor Chinese to build the railroads and then discarded them like a used rubber? Those WASPs? Or the WASPS that dominate the U.S. truck farming industry and teir fantastic record on labor? Those WASPS?

 

The WASPS whose fortunes funded those elitist Ivy League and other progressive educational and research institution's that you people readily blame for nearly all of our problems? Those WASPs?

 

The U. S. based WASP moguls of finance  who provided massive waves of investment ot build the machinery of fascism in Spain, Germany and Italy after WW1 and of whom many are ON RECORD in their admistrationf for Franco, Hitler and Mussolini. Those WASPs? The WASPS who have been behind most of the viral anti-Semitism in this country since it's very beginning, primarily by not steadfastly fighting the Catholic and other Germanic religious fomenting of it? Those WASPs? But then you belong to one fo those sects, so I maybe it's just that you appreciate the indifference.

 

You are making up embellished versions of popular "common knowledge" old thread bare and time worn supposedly "conservative" poll-hall and feed store cracker barell moralilty plays Red. Crap that's been around forever. Fabricated and thrown at the wall over and over until there is a good stain.