The civil war - views on right and wrong.

[Samthehumble]

Leading up to the civil war there was of course very different views on the ethics of the situation.  For instance someone helping slave escape via the underground railroad viewed their own actions as morally justified (and I agree).  But the other side did not look it at that way.

I'll relate a true story of our modern times and let you comment on the ethics of the situation.

This family who is very involved in local activities has one particular very nice and very smart daughter.    But because of the dynamics of the family she is/has been searching for where she fits in in the world.  There is this other woman who has been very involved with the family on community affairs and who is a friend and coworker of the mother.   At the age of 16 the daughter started becoming more male in her appearance.  The change was gradual and the family felt it was just her expressing he own individuality.  At the same time this other woman began spending more time with her as a mentor on various community projects.  When the girl turns 18 and changes her name to a male name it 's obvious the change she wants to make.  The family is upset at this, but dealing with it.   by 18.5 the girl obviously on hormones as the developing facial hair would attest.

Ok here is where the ethics come in.    The other woman starts bragging on social media how she helped this girl along in her decision to make this transition.   And how when the girl became 18 she started taking her to the Dr appointments because they would not administer the drugs without another adult present.   I'll repeat that she was a friend and coworker of the mother.   She never consulted the family in any way, but kept it secret.   On social media the woman is treated as a hero.

Is she a hero?

And oh, no indication of any illicit intention from the woman at all.

[hardnox]

One form of pervasive sexual confusion was/is for young males who absorb cultural mores from their environment and peers and can lose restraint of their surging testosterone levels.

That's a huge problem and one that, regardless what Men's Rights advocates claim, Title IX tribunals tend to protect them from- at least from the worse consequence of felony criminal charges. Maybe they shouldn't.

But the sexual landscape was confusing back then and it is now- perhaps more so, maybe not. Any boy who hasn't gotten the message can't really claim ignorance.

I think gay kids probably have it a bit better but I think most kids still struggle with understanding their sexuality, maybe even more, but in different ways.

The T part really lights folks up- it has now replaced Karl Rove's gay marriage hysteria of 2004. In my view always a mistake for "the movement" to push into that without some time to digest gains.

And of course there's a lot of BS- gay people aren't all "brave" or whatever, they're just gay. Which was the point of acknowledging how the world is and has always been.

[Packard27]

Life is about choices. It is also about living with the consequences from those choices. Some of these are good choices. Some are bad choices. Most are just “who cares?” choices.

The important thing to remember, however, is that we must own the choices that were always ours to make in the first place. If you are an educated, informed, adult citizen, you are free in this country to make whatever choices you wish as long as you do not violate the rights of your fellow citizens. Just, own what is yours.

Do recreational drugs/Don’t do recreational drugs

Consume alcohol/Abstain from alcohol

Become obese/Watch your weight

Vote/Don’t vote

Work at your job/Quit your job

Get a tattoo/Don’t get a tatoo

Get married/Don’t get married

Have sex/Remain celibate

Join the Army/Join the clergy/Join the United Roofers Association

Spend your money/Save your money

Wear long hair/Wear short hair

Vote Democrat/Vote Republican

Watch CNN/Watch Fox

Buy a new car/Maintain your 12 year old clunker

If you are not interfering with the life cycles of other folks, you are free to do whatever it is you wish to do with your own life. It would seem to me that an eighteen year old is old enough to make big decisions about his or her own life. It should go without saying, that that same eighteen year old is also old enough to live with the consequences of their own personal choices.

[Samthehumble]

I agree the girl at 18 is an adult and makes her own decisions. 

But the woman who is supposed to be a friend and is a close coworker of the mother, to sneak around, encouraging the child to take this course and actively hiding it from the family is over the line in my opinion.   If the woman cared about the child, and this started when she was about 13, she would have talked to the family about it.  because  in fact the girl could have used professional counselling, but the family didn't really know there was a problem.

In the woman's mind though she views herself as a hero. 

[WCMO]

The woman is no hero -- she had no "right" to interfere nor assist the then-underage daughter, at least not without the express knowledge and consent of the parents.  As far as legalities go, it's probably very little different than buying drugs/alcohol for a minor.

[Samthehumble]

What I'm getting at is how far apart we've become.   What one side views as heroic, the other views as despicable.

Its like how one side views a gay couple who seeks out a christian baker to make them a cake, as a hero who breaks down barriers, the other views them as someone wanting to force their will on others.

Is this divergence of views just another step along the road to civil war?

[bruce MN]

When ideaology trumps standards. Everybody has a trigger. Good friend who has a devotedEvangelical wife just told us that she jumped the Thumper ship when no one in the Franklin Graham camp denounced the family separation matter.

For me it might be the vitriol that came out of the more fervent RW punditry (and a number of posters here) upon the passing of Senator McCain.

[Canuck_2]

the other views them as someone wanting to force their will on others.

Which seems to apply to either side.

[Samthehumble]

It amazed me how McCain switched saint to satan and vice versa in both camps with trumps election.

[Samthehumble]

stay out of it hoser.

just kidding