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r3020
Senior Advisor

The establishment and fiscal restraint

1/3 of Harry's 1.1 trillion is already gone. Who was it that said raising the debt ceiling didn't mean more debt?

 

snip-

U.S. debt jumped a record $328 billion on Thursday, the first day the   federal government was able to borrow money under the deal President  Obama and Congress sealed this week.

The debt now equals $17.075 trillion, according to figures the Treasury  Department posted online on Friday.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/18/us-debt-jumps-400-billion-tops-17-trillion-first-t/#...

10 Replies
bruce MN
Advisor

Re: The establishment and fiscal restraint

Tell us please. What bothers you more? The sheer size of it, even though but a nominal percentage of GDP, made out of the world's reserve currency and most of it owed to ourseves in bonds that can be converted handily short of electing for any risk bearing options on the part of the ruling plutocracy (yeah Sam...MMT). Or, instead or rather, what the workings of democracy have determined over time that some portions of it should be expended upon? That has to be a severe confliction for you, jumping around from learned economist to guardian of a nation's collective soul all the time as the cases and the causes present themselves.
Samnospam
Advisor

Re: The establishment and fiscal restraint

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: The establishment and fiscal restraint


@bruce MN wrote:
Tell us please. What bothers you more? The sheer size of it, even though but a nominal percentage of GDP, made out of the world's reserve currency and most of it owed to ourseves in bonds that can be converted handily short of electing for any risk bearing options on the part of the ruling plutocracy (yeah Sam...MMT). Or, instead or rather, what the workings of democracy have determined over time that some portions of it should be expended upon? That has to be a severe confliction for you, jumping around from learned economist to guardian of a nation's collective soul all the time as the cases and the causes present themselves.

What bothers me the most is the immorality of a ruling class lording over a lower class of servitude.

 

"most of it owed to ourseves in bonds that can be converted handily short of electing for any risk bearing options on the part of the ruling plutocracy"

 

How will this be converted and when?

Husker-J
Senior Contributor

Re: The establishment and fiscal restraint

I wish I would have caught who said raising the debt cieling woudn't raise the debt.   I think I could have won a bet on that.


Heck, I'll go so far as to say that Obama will want the debt cieling raised again, within a year.

Any takers?

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: The establishment and fiscal restraint

'How will this be converted and when?'

 

They'd like to take the treasuries held by the federal reserve and mark them out of existence.  POOPH! debt gone.  Party on Garth!

 

This in John's grandaughter's article applies to so much that goes on in the world and certainly applies to MMT philosophy:

 

'The last sentence is a claim the author doesn’t seem capable of examining: His survival depends on oppression and injustice. The next assumption is: Therefore, oppression and injustice are necessary and justified.'

Red Steele
Veteran Advisor

Unsustainable debt

Just do the math on what a 6% interest rate does when you multiply it by $17 trillion. Baggerbruce must not even be able to balance a checkbook.

 

THe only thing that keeps this house of cards up is fiat money, and fiat interest rates.

 

CHina is stockpiling anything else but US treasuries for a very good reason.

 

We were here once before , but the circumstances were different and Paul Volker shut the party down instead of ordering more booze. This time, the drunks are running the show.

 

Sam, pour Bagger another drink.

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: The establishment and fiscal restraint

I am the one that said raising the debt limit would not raise spending. The spending has already been authorized. The adminsitration has been holding back on purchases to hold back cash because they didn't know how long the clowns were going to keep the government shut down. Since the agreement they have went ahead and bought the needed supplies.

 

All federal spending is authorized by the halls of congress.Either this congress or a previous one. The debt ceiling merely limits borrowing authority. How much good does that do after congress spend the money. My advise would be to quit voting for wars if you don't want to pay for them. A solution a 10% sur tax  as soon a our troops are in harms way. Lets see if you really support our troops or whether is merely BS.

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unsustainable debt

It would help if you paid a few taxes. You and amillion others that think tax avoidance is a laudable objective.

gough whitlam
Senior Contributor

Re: The establishment and fiscal restraint

bruce MN wrote:
Tell us please. What bothers you more? The sheer size of it, even though but a nominal percentage of GDP, made out of the world's reserve currency and most of it owed to ourseves in bonds that can be converted handily short of electing for any risk bearing options on the part of the ruling plutocracy (yeah Sam...MMT). Or, instead or rather, what the workings of democracy have determined over time that some portions of it should be expended upon? That has to be a severe confliction for you, jumping around from learned economist to guardian of a nation's collective soul all the time as the cases and the causes present themselves.
What bothers me the most is the immorality of a ruling class lording over a lower class of servitude.

"most of it owed to ourseves in bonds that can be converted handily short of electing for any risk bearing options on the part of the ruling plutocracy"

How will this be converted and when?

I told you all he knows nothing about how an economy runs. There's the proof. Add craig and Millie and you have the three stooges.