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wgjerde768071
Senior Contributor

Re: The misunderstanding about health insurance

Let's see The average private insurance company spends 28 percent on administration and  medicare spends about 5 percen  could it be the fat cat are worried about there mansions. Even if you had 5 percent more fraud under medicare it would still be cheaper.  The new health care bill will take care of most of the private insurance death panels. These are the panels that cancel your insurance or denie you coverage My 94 year old aunt just had a broken leg  Medicare did not say to here you are to old to fix it . They fixed it .   So let us deal in facts not some opinion you read or heard

r3020
Senior Contributor

Re: The misunderstanding about health insurance

Bruce, we created an entire industry to do NOTHING but pay our doctor bills and call it health care. We need to eliminate them as much as possible. The way to lower health care cost is to eliminate the middle man not create another monopoly. With the government in charge health care will be another political football they use to keep us voting for them.It will be all about who gets what, when, and most of all, about cost. Look to education as an example in this country and look to Europe for an example of what we will become. We do not need to give government that much control over our lives. You already can not drive down the road without a seat belt without the possibility of paying a fine. This country was built on freedom, not threats from a government, that is what the founding fathers were trying to get away from. Now we are willing to hand that control back over to the government, they must be spinning in their graves.

r3020
Senior Contributor

Re: The misunderstanding about health insurance

wg, please post a link to your numbers.

Canuck_2
Veteran Advisor

Some numbers for r3020

I have posted before r3020 about the high cost of administration in your country and I happen to have this link available which shows a similar number to wg's 28% and it is 1999 figures with a trend that is up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12930930

In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least 294.3 billion dollars in the United States, or 1,059 dollars per capita, as compared with 307 dollars per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada's national health insurance program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada's private insurers was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers' administrative costs were far lower in Canada. Between 1969 and 1999, the share of the U.S. health care labor force accounted for by administrative workers grew from 18.2 percent to 27.3 percent. In Canada, it grew from 16.0 percent in 1971 to 19.1 percent in 1996. (Both nations' figures exclude insurance-industry personnel.)

Also you should note that the insurance personnel are not include in either country but remember in Canada few of us buy any insurace until we go to visit your country then we have to have it to cover the higher cost in your country, just the difference since our socialist, government controlled, health care pays only the same amount that it would in Canada.

r3020
Senior Contributor

Re: Some numbers for r3020

Here is what I been able to find so far.

 

snip-

 

According to the national health spending estimates from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), the administrative costs, taxes, profits, and other non-benefit expenses of private health plans have averaged about 12 percent of premiums over the last 40 years. This includes all types of health insurance purchased privately, ranging from employer-based coverage to individually purchased plans, Medigap and long-term care insurance. (These figures do not include private health plans operating in Medicare or Medicaid.)

Average 12.4%

The CMS data do not provide a breakdown of the components of non-benefit sBut it seems likely that there has been a shiftin the composition of administrativPrior to the 1990s, administrative costs wdominated by claims-paying expenses. Inrecent years, claims-paying costs have almost certainly fallen as a share of premiums. However, health insurance plans now spend more ondisease and care management programs, nurse help lines, member information services (such websites dedicated to health education and self-management), and "network management," whichconsists of negotiations and communications with hospitals, physicians and other health provunder contract with health insurance plans.

 

http://www.ahipresearch.org/pdfs/Administrative_Costs_030705.pdf

Red Steele
Senior Contributor

Re: Someone else can help Mr. Kraft out with the "facts"

Kraft, you do not seem capable of honest debate on an issue, or even ambitious enough to educate yourself on simple matters. There are plenty of resources available to you to do a simple google and find out about the Social Security and Medicare "Trust Funds."

 

Blame LBJ and the looting of the money to finance an unpopular asian war, for starters, and blame every congress and president thereafter for keeping both hands grabbing the dollars ever since.  Someone else already told you the difference between a bank deposit, loaned out with secured loans to finance land, houses, etc. and a paper entry somewhere in that little "trust fund" office to show that the US government owes money to the "trust fund".

 

Oh to live on sugar mountain! Be an ostrich, keep your head in the sand, and have a great life.

 

 

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Some numbers for r3020

Please note that medicare covers the elderly most of who would be uninsurable in the private market. Why desn't the private insurers offer competitive products which woud beat the snot out of the US Government providers?

 

You always claimed that private enterprise is so much more efficient than any government effort. Why not compete with the government and offer deals that would put them out of business. Plus why are the privates concerned about government involvement? Could it be because they cannot compete?

 

You think they might b e putting profits before patients. How about you? Are you putting your political ideology ahead of common sense?

 

Large pools shared risk and no age or existing condition discrimination. It would cost less than the financial pain suffered by the uninsured. 

 

Employers should not be involved in health care. Their job is to provide a living wage and a safe workplace. Most companies would rejoice at being relieved of that burden. Employees would demand adequate pay for services rendered. Their health care risk would be shared with other tax payers. It wouldn't bother me if you got a free colonostophe one a week.

 

 

 

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Someone else can help Mr. Kraft out with the "facts"

Do you have a reference that any event where the US Government has ever reneged on any us security. Those are insured by the full faith and credit of the US gov't. Why would you assume they would start reneging now. They will honor their obligations to the ss trust fund even if they have to refinance through issuing new bonds to other investors.

 

BTW LBJ had a 10 % surtax to finance the war. That should be a requirement before engaging in. If the people favor it they will support the tax. If not we ought to stay home.

 

As far as my head in the sand, I suggest you study the facts instead of the mantra that some idealogue told you. There is no supportive evidence that indicates that government will ever reneg on a u.s. security. In Fact only the righties would think that is a remote possibility.

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Someone else can help Mr. Kraft out with the "facts"

Sounds like an attempt to extort something form the govt at the expense of their trusted employees to me.  I used to have a dental policy that cost me $49/month for a max of $1300 coverage a year.  Better than a poke in the eye but not much.

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Someone else can help Mr. Kraft out with the "facts"

AMEN!!!