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KNAPPer
Senior Contributor

Re: And on the flip side....

Sorry..the posts are "Fast & Furious" and it's hard to keep up with who is posting what. I will endeavor to look that up. Thank you for the info.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: And on the flip side....


@KNAPPer wrote:

I can't point to a study in the US that shows that. I could dig up some from Europe if you wish. They have been at it a while.

 

Also, can you provide us with statistics that show more guns make us more safe and reduce violence?

 

While we are on the subject, a lot of conservatives in their lust to reduce government in any way possible point towards closing or rather selling off National Forests, BLM properties and other public lands where hunting is allowed. Many states have passed laws that forbid hunting on private property without written permission from the owner. If conservatives did succeed in closing off most all public lands where hunting is allowed, then all that would be left is private land and leases. It would wind up that only those that can pay to hunt or have vast lands to lease would be able to hunt. If this major justification for owning firearms for hunting is assaulted in this way, does not a big part of the reason to own firearms (hunting) disappear or become greatly reduced? What is left as a reason to own a firearm? Do we want to be like Europe where only the wealthy can hunt? Would personal protection become the last bear thread as a reason for woning a firearm? Think about that before you answer.

 

PS - I think La Pierre had some points about videos and movies and how they glorify gun violence, but I would use the National Guard, not volunteers or make the schools use their budgets for armed guards. I would also go ahead with the ban on assault weapons - don't have a use for one and a pistol or shot gun is fine for me to protect myself and my home/family.


It is ever bit as much about self defense/personal protection as it is hunting.

johnaa
Advisor

Re: And on the flip side....

   "Also, can you provide us with statistics that show more guns make us more safe and reduce violence?"  It shows statistics from Europe showing a correlation between private gun ownership and violence. For example,  In England violence has increased after they banned about every weapon.  

 

    How did you miss it?  If you read this-- http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

 


 

KNAPPer
Senior Contributor

flip both sides....

I already told you how I missed it! Dang!

 

This info from Fact Check seems to bear out what some folks here are saying, but seems pretty even handed:

 

http://factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/

 

I am still left with questions:

 

How can we reduce gun crime?

Will strengthening background checks help?

Is there some way to pursue criminals better and get guns out of their hands while letting alone honest owners?

Would public information ads help? If anyone things so, what should they say?

What can we do to help strengthen law enforcement and stop the erosion of their resources?

Would legalizing certain drugs while cracking down harder on others help?

 

I HAVE LOTS OF MORE QUESTIONS. But I am too weary of this discussion to keep at it. You see, I care. Call me a liberal and say that makes me a dirtbag if that makes you feel better, but it does not make my questions less legitimate. My main idea is crack down hard on criminals and give law enforcement the tools to do it. Like many conservatives say, why punish honest people. Let's get the dishonest ones instead and see what happens.

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

While it may be difficult to prove that reducing gun ownership

will reduce gun violence. I'm pretty certain that more gun ownership will give more people the opportunity to do so.

 

From the lunacy spouted by gun lovers I am convinced that actual confiscation is the only way to reduce gun violence. I certainly hope you will join me in that effort! You can't be happy with these massacres either. I find 5 and 6 year olds massacred as sickening. I don't know how you can possibly defend the status quo.

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

BA. They don't use shotguns

because the assault weapon is a better choice designed specifically for that purpose. An offensive and a defensive weapon for use in military conflicts. The only reason for their existance.

 

What makes you think the continued sale of those products will make those people more safe? Or aren't you one bit concerned about that? Who is supposed to identify and deter those monsters amongst us. They are out there and you have the general public wondering if you are the next monster, your neighbor or your friend. Yet people live in their own little worlds wondering if their neighbor is the next dude to come out with guns a blazing.

 

Ironically, many of you oppose the nation of Iran possessing nuclear weapons because the potential threat of that ownership is unthinkable. Yet john and mary public live in fear for themselves and their families because they have armed neighbor right next door that pose a very real threat to their families personally. And you are not at all interested in addressing their concerns and the neighbor is more likely to kill you than that persian leader ever will..

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: BA. They don't use shotguns

Don, it`s like this I fear my own government way more than any camel jockey or a rightwing preper.  There are guns all over S Mn and N Ia, the only murders you hear about are some white trash gangster wannabes in Mason or some Mexican meat packers in Austin stabbing eachother.  But every small town anymore has a gun store Manly, Kensett, Thompson, Algona even the Bohemians in Hayfield I think have a gun store.  Throw out Austin Albert Lea and Mason...there ain`t no violent crime around here.

rawhide
Advisor

Re: BA. They don't use shotguns

a 223 is not an assult weapon

Taylor ECIL
Senior Contributor

Re: BA. They don't use shotguns

So what do you ban when they use a Ryder truck, fertilzer, and fuel? Killing 168 people, including 19 children?

johnaa
Advisor

Fact Checker fails the smell test.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Russia

Seem Fact Checker is dishonest, they claim the USA has the highest in the world.   There table of private gun ownership in Europe leaves out the nationwith the highest guns per Norway.   They rely upon anti-gun lobbiests for most of their figures, like Handgun Control.