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jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

This Is EXACTLY What I Said

A couple of weeks ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/21/donald-trump-cognitive-test-closer-look

 

I took a closer look at the cognitive test Trump claims to have aced

The test the president boasted about passing does not measure IQ but is typically used to check for early signs of dementia

Like any smart, down-to-earth person, Donald Trump has been bragging about “acing” a simple cognitive test he took recently. He’s been doing it for a while now, but it wasn’t until his interview with Fox News’s Chris Wallace on Sunday that he was challenged over it.

As the president started boasting about his results, Wallace laughed. “I took the test too when I heard that you passed it,” the Fox News host told Trump. “It’s not – well it’s not the hardest test. They have a picture and it says ‘what’s that’ and it’s an elephant.’”

This, according to Trump, was “misrepresentation”. “Yes, the first few questions are easy,” he conceded. “But I’ll bet you couldn’t even answer the last five questions. I’ll bet you couldn’t, they get very hard, the last five questions.” He added: “I guarantee you that Joe Biden could not answer those questions.”

So what is the test and are the last five questions, as Trump claims, really so difficult?

The test is called the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA), and was created by the neurologist Dr Ziad Nasreddine in 1996. Talking to MarketWatch on Monday, Nasreddine stressed that the test “is supposed to be easy for someone who has no cognitive impairment”, stressing that “this is not an IQ test or the level of how a person is extremely skilled or not. The test is supposed to help physicians detect early signs of Alzheimer’s.”

There are a few different versions of the test with small variations (such as the words to remember or animals to name), but the questions are generally the same. We can’t tell for sure which version Trump took, but as he said he did it recently, I’ve taken the latest MoCA test from their website.

Trump is right about the start of the test being easy. But when it comes to the last five questions, his claim that they’re “very hard” is unsettling (although not surprising) in what it reveals about his relationship with reality.

But before we dive into that, here’s what the test involves:

(I posted the test a few weeks ago - I'm only going to include the text here)

If you’re lucky enough to not have any cognitive impairment, this part is also easy. There are three drawings – a lion, rhino and camel. As mentioned, there are a few versions of the test with very minor differences – for example, the test Fox News showed during the interview had an elephant on it (you can see it here), but the latest test has a rhino instead. This has led some of Trump’s critics to baselessly claim that he can’t tell the difference between the two.

Both of these sections are very simple, and involve repeating a series of numbers forwards and backwards, and remembering a string of five random words. The final part, which Chris Wallace mentioned, asks you to count back from 100 in multiples of seven (100, 93, 86). Like the clock, this took me slightly longer than I would have liked – but nowhere does it say this is a timed test. I did it in the end, slowly but surely.

The difficulties begin

This is where things get a little concerning.

If you remember, Trump bet Wallace that he “couldn’t even answer the last five questions” of the test. But for a mentally healthy person, the last five questions should be as simple as the rest.

The fifth-to-last question on the test asks you to repeat a sentence out loud, before naming as many words as you can starting with F. In the following “abstraction” section, you have to spot the similarity between different objects such as trains and bicycles (modes of transport), or a watch and a ruler (measuring devices).

Next, you have to recall the random words that were included in the earlier memory section. This may be the part that’s easiest to trip over.

And finally, for the orientation part of the test, you have to … say what the date is.

For Trump to claim these are hard is worrying because for any cognitively healthy person, they shouldn’t be. But before we start any armchair diagnosis, you have to weigh up two probabilities against each other. Is it really likely that he found the last five questions hard? Or is it more likely that he’s misrepresenting about how hard they were, in order to look “smarter” than Joe Biden?

In the same interview, Trump got his team to pass him a chart that he said showed the US had “one of the lowest mortality rates in the world”, when it didn’t do anything of the sort. This is shocking, but not surprising – Trump has now made more than 20,000 false or misleading claims since he took office.

So it seems more likely that Trump’s difficulties at the end of the test tell us nothing that we don’t know already. His prolific lying and self-aggrandisement, two things we have empirical evidence for, should be what worries us. For, similar to his “stable genius” claims, you’ve got to ask yourself: how many smart people brag about their supposed intellect so much, and in such a misguided way?

Republicans can't win an election, without lying...

Jen

6 Replies
jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: This Is EXACTLY What I Said

And here is what I posted, a week or so ago:

 
jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor
Trump - The Stable Genius...
 

 

Here is the test that Trump took, that he was so proud of acing...

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-EnMOCA Test.jpg

 

 

Trump is so PROUD of his ability to ace that cognitive test.   It seems to me, that someone who is a “stable genius” would’ve taken much, much harder tests in the past, and his comments, instead of gloating about how he passed this test, would be like mine - that cognitive test is very simplistic.  

It doesn’t test for intelligence by any means.  It tests for severe mental impairment - not intelligence - and somebody as smart as Trump claims he is, would know that.  

I’ve taken the test.   A few years ago, in the doctors office when a drug I was prescribed was messing with my mental abilities - and I still aced the test.  I down loaded it yesterday, and I aced it again.  And it is STILL a very simplistic test, and not meant to do what Trump claims it is.

Here - you want to try a real test of your mental abilities - try this one:

https://www.tsatestprep.com/atsa-practice-test/

Here's another one:

https://www.practiceaptitudetests.com/test/programme/air-traffic-controller-test/1

And Trump was so proud of his "acing" of the test....BS is all it is....

Republicans can't win an election, without lying.....

Jen

 

I could've written the article.  But the question still remains:

Why was Trump so thrilled with passing this thing?   This should've been a very, very easy test, for the stable genius.  It tells me a whole lot, of the "real" genius level of this man.....

Republicans can't win an election, without lying....

Jen

Edmund55
Senior Contributor

Re: This Is EXACTLY What I Said

(And here is what I posted, a week or so ago:)

You have shown that 2 liberal rags, tick tock and the guardian, get there fake news from the same source.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: This Is EXACTLY What I Said

Scratch will have plenty of time and opportunity to expose Trump during the debates.

rsbs
Veteran Advisor

Re: This Is EXACTLY What I Said

You think that Sniffer Joe will try to "finger" Trump on being a talker and not a doer when the debates start?

jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: This Is EXACTLY What I Said


@Edmund55 wrote:

(And here is what I posted, a week or so ago:)

You have shown that 2 liberal rags, tick tock and the guardian, get there fake news from the same source.


No - it has to do with the fact I knew what the test was.   For some reason, it took others more time to figure it out.  The fact that Trump decided that he had to “double down” on a test that was made to see if you should be able to live by yourself, and not an “IQ” test like he was trying to say it was, is what led me to post what I did.  

Trump isn’t what he says he is.  He IS however, what others HAVE said he is....a CON MAN.  A VERY GOOD CON MAN - that has been caught, lying to himself....

Republicans can’t win an election, without lying......

Jen

aljessen61
Senior Contributor

Re: This Is EXACTLY What I Said


https://www.unsuited.org/education?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=unsuited&gclid=E...
@jennys_mn wrote:

A couple of weeks ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/21/donald-trump-cognitive-test-closer-look

 

I took a closer look at the cognitive test Trump claims to have aced

The test the president boasted about passing does not measure IQ but is typically used to check for early signs of dementia

Like any smart, down-to-earth person, Donald Trump has been bragging about “acing” a simple cognitive test he took recently. He’s been doing it for a while now, but it wasn’t until his interview with Fox News’s Chris Wallace on Sunday that he was challenged over it.

As the president started boasting about his results, Wallace laughed. “I took the test too when I heard that you passed it,” the Fox News host told Trump. “It’s not – well it’s not the hardest test. They have a picture and it says ‘what’s that’ and it’s an elephant.’”

This, according to Trump, was “misrepresentation”. “Yes, the first few questions are easy,” he conceded. “But I’ll bet you couldn’t even answer the last five questions. I’ll bet you couldn’t, they get very hard, the last five questions.” He added: “I guarantee you that Joe Biden could not answer those questions.”

So what is the test and are the last five questions, as Trump claims, really so difficult?

The test is called the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA), and was created by the neurologist Dr Ziad Nasreddine in 1996. Talking to MarketWatch on Monday, Nasreddine stressed that the test “is supposed to be easy for someone who has no cognitive impairment”, stressing that “this is not an IQ test or the level of how a person is extremely skilled or not. The test is supposed to help physicians detect early signs of Alzheimer’s.”

There are a few different versions of the test with small variations (such as the words to remember or animals to name), but the questions are generally the same. We can’t tell for sure which version Trump took, but as he said he did it recently, I’ve taken the latest MoCA test from their website.

Trump is right about the start of the test being easy. But when it comes to the last five questions, his claim that they’re “very hard” is unsettling (although not surprising) in what it reveals about his relationship with reality.

But before we dive into that, here’s what the test involves:

(I posted the test a few weeks ago - I'm only going to include the text here)

If you’re lucky enough to not have any cognitive impairment, this part is also easy. There are three drawings – a lion, rhino and camel. As mentioned, there are a few versions of the test with very minor differences – for example, the test Fox News showed during the interview had an elephant on it (you can see it here), but the latest test has a rhino instead. This has led some of Trump’s critics to baselessly claim that he can’t tell the difference between the two.

Both of these sections are very simple, and involve repeating a series of numbers forwards and backwards, and remembering a string of five random words. The final part, which Chris Wallace mentioned, asks you to count back from 100 in multiples of seven (100, 93, 86). Like the clock, this took me slightly longer than I would have liked – but nowhere does it say this is a timed test. I did it in the end, slowly but surely.

The difficulties begin

This is where things get a little concerning.

If you remember, Trump bet Wallace that he “couldn’t even answer the last five questions” of the test. But for a mentally healthy person, the last five questions should be as simple as the rest.

The fifth-to-last question on the test asks you to repeat a sentence out loud, before naming as many words as you can starting with F. In the following “abstraction” section, you have to spot the similarity between different objects such as trains and bicycles (modes of transport), or a watch and a ruler (measuring devices).

Next, you have to recall the random words that were included in the earlier memory section. This may be the part that’s easiest to trip over.

And finally, for the orientation part of the test, you have to … say what the date is.

For Trump to claim these are hard is worrying because for any cognitively healthy person, they shouldn’t be. But before we start any armchair diagnosis, you have to weigh up two probabilities against each other. Is it really likely that he found the last five questions hard? Or is it more likely that he’s misrepresenting about how hard they were, in order to look “smarter” than Joe Biden?

In the same interview, Trump got his team to pass him a chart that he said showed the US had “one of the lowest mortality rates in the world”, when it didn’t do anything of the sort. This is shocking, but not surprising – Trump has now made more than 20,000 false or misleading claims since he took office.

So it seems more likely that Trump’s difficulties at the end of the test tell us nothing that we don’t know already. His prolific lying and self-aggrandisement, two things we have empirical evidence for, should be what worries us. For, similar to his “stable genius” claims, you’ve got to ask yourself: how many smart people brag about their supposed intellect so much, and in such a misguided way?

Republicans can't win an election, without lying...

Jen