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Veteran Advisor

Re: True test

Yeah...nearly everybody one runs into looks like they are trying to do a John Boehner impression...


Cash is drying up for alot of people...easy to see it all becoming a tinder box.


But BTO farmin' is good...never been better for most  who reamain standing large. Making this a naturally poor place for these discussions, but as you say it has been surpisingly more open and reasonable than most others I've ever looked at.


I credit Don for most of that, as  he's been the compass on the dashboard around here for a long, long time. Stick around, if not for any other reason than for him and his leagacy here.


Wondering if Brent not posting has anything to do with SF policy.

Veteran Advisor

Re: True test

Long read for some I'm sure but well worth it.

Another article worth a read.


This is long, but worth taking the time to read.

"After America, There is No Place to Go"

The author of this article lives in South Dakota and appears to be very active in attempting to maintain our freedom. I encourage everybody to read this article and pass it along. I see so many parallels in this country–are we going to sit by and watch it happen? Spread the word; also contact your congressional reps; vote them out if they don’t do what they should.

Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom Slip Away

By: Kitty Werthmann
What I am about to tell you is something you've probably never heard or will ever read in history books.

I believe that I am an eyewitness to history. I cannot tell you that Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote. I've never read that in any American publications. Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.
In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unemployed. We had 25% inflation and 25% bank loan interest rates.
Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were going from house to house begging for food. Not that they didn't want to work; there simply weren't any jobs. My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people - about 30 daily.
The Communist Party and the National Socialist Party were fighting each other. Blocks and blocks of cities like Vienna, Linz, and Graz were destroyed. The people became desperate and petitioned the government to let them decide what kind of government they wanted.
We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany, where Hitler had been in power since 1933. We had been told that they didn't have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living. Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group -- Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone was happy. We wanted the same way of life in Austria . We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back. Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany and have Hitler for our ruler.
We were overjoyed, and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and everyone was fed.
After the election, German officials were appointed, and like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service.

Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn't support his family. Many women in the teaching profession were elated that they could retain the jobs they previously had been required to give up for marriage.

Hitler Targets Education - Eliminates Religious Instruction for Children:

Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler's picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn't pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles," and had physical education.

Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail. The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free. We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.
My mother was very unhappy. When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn't do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun - no sports, and no political indoctrination. I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing. Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler. It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn't exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.

Equal Rights Hits Home:

In 1939, the war started and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn't work, you didn't get a ration card, and if you didn't have a card, you starved to death. Women who stayed home to raise their families didn't have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.
Soon after this, the draft was implemented. It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps. During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys. They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines. When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat. Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service.
Hitler Restructured the Family Through Daycare:

When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately established child care centers. You could take your children ages 4 weeks to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, 7 days a week, under the total care of the government. The state raised a whole generation of children. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had.

Health Care and Small Business Suffer Under Government Controls:

Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna . After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.

As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80% of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families. All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.
We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables. Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn't meet all the demands. Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.
We had consumer protection. We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the live-stock, then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it.

"Mercy Killing" Redefined:

In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps . The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated. So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded. When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good manual work. I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van. I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months. They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness.
As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.

The Final Steps - Gun Laws:
Next came gun registration.. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long after-wards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.
No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.
Totalitarianism didn't come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria . Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.
After World War II, Russian troops occupied Austria . Women were raped, preteen to elderly. The press never wrote about this either. When the Soviets left in 1955, they took everything that they could, dismantling whole factories in the process. They sawed down whole orchards of fruit, and what they couldn't destroy, they burned. We called it The Burned Earth. Most of the population barricaded themselves in their houses. Women hid in their cellars for 6 weeks as the troops mobilized. Those who couldn't, paid the price. There is a monument in Vienna today, dedicated to those women who were massacred by the Russians. This is an eye witness account.

"It's true..those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.

America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom Slip Away

"After America , There is No Place to Go"

Senior Contributor

Re: True test

"It's now official, the right-wing extremists have managed to make Obama's presidency about race."  I think both parties have done a pretty good job of making this about race.  Look at how many Repubs who don't agree with Obama on any matter are quickly labeled as racist.  


Bruce, I think both parties have done a good job of using race and especially blacks as a way to help keep getting elected.  You bring up a good point about Nixon's southern strategy but also remember LBJ' s remarks about how he will have the "niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years after he signed the Civil Rights act.

Veteran Advisor

Re: True test

WHO ther edag..snopes or google it up a bit before yuo get that uncharacteristicly harsh...and innacurate....


What LBJ said was that the Democratic Party just gave up the South for a generation.


I can't find the quoation that you refer to.


And for what it's worth, it was very much a bi-partatisn took nearly all of the Midwestern  and NE Republicans of the day to take it ove the top.

Senior Contributor

Re: True test

The quote is in Ronald Kessler's book "Inside the White House."  Supposedly LBJ made the comments aboard Air Force One to two democratic governors. 


Speaking of LBJ did you get a chance to see History Channel's recent show "The Kennedy Assasination - 24 Hours Later"?  Great show with some very interesting info.  I had not realized the extent of dislike and distrust between LBJ and RFK.   The show made it look like RFK treated LBJ pretty crappy after his brother's assination.  It didn't help that LBJ did not trust RFK and believed he was trying to remove LBJ from the 1964 presidential ticket. 


The show also talked about a show down between the Secret Service and JFK's people at Parkland Hospital with the Texas authorities when JFK's people wanted to take his body back to DC right after he was announced dead.  Texas state law says that the autopsy must be conducted in Texas and there was considerable pushing and shoving plus a lot of yelling that almost came to both sides drawing their guns.  Then after JFK's people and the secret service risked JFK's bodied off to the airport many of JFK's people were upset to find LBJ on board Air Force One believing he should be on board Air Force Two which was also at the Dallas airport.  However it was under the recommendation of the Secret Service that LBJ get back to DC and out of Dallas in case there was a plot to kill him as well.  The pilot refused one of JFK's aides order to quickly take off since they were still afraid Texas authorities might try to come and reclaim the body.  The pilot said the president refering to LBJ had given him orders to wait for a judge to arrive to administer the oath of office to LBJ.  The angry JFK aide shouted back "My president is back there in a box."  It amazes me how well Mrs. Kennedy handled herself in such extremely trying times. 

Senior Advisor

Re: True test

Dag, this racist thing really got going after the dems pushed health care through with a simple majority. The teaparty has been against it from the get go because it takes away our freedom and is going to bankrupt the country. The dems know they are on the wrong side so they pulled out the old race card and started to insinuate the majority of the teaparty supporters are nothing but racist because Obama is black. We have seen the same thing on this board.

Senior Contributor

Nox, a little constructive criticism

You seem frustrated that you haven`t won everyone over to your way of thinking. What have you posted that would convince someone to change their mind? I challenge you to reread what you`ve written and see if you don`t agree. Half of it is vailed vulgarity, using the "n word" as bait, the other half is some kind of ebonics jibber jabber like "Thass right.....I hates miscegenation"???? What in the heck is that goofiness?  When it comes to discussing racial issues Red Steele would take jabs at Judaism such as calling "News Week", "Jews Week".  But when we started talking about Blacks and Mexicans all of a sudden he had to "vote with his feet" and leave. Nox, I haven`t seen you have a problem with the anti semitism exhibited by Johnaa and a few others. Is your moral outrage only limited to the facts presented in regards to Blacks? 

Senior Contributor

Re: True test

I actually noticed the race card played early on in the campaign when Obama aids would quickly cry racism when ever anyone challenged Obama on something.  After he became president that practice became the standard operating procedure for the Obama camp.  You also saw Hillary aids try the same ploy during the election when her aids and advisors would claim she was being treating unfairly simply because she was a woman.  In reality Obama was given a pass by many in the press during the election.  SNL had a great skit about this where the Hillary character was being asked all kinds of tough questions by the press during a debate while the Obama character was always being given compliments and praises and was never asked any real questions.

Re: Nox, a little constructive criticism

Yeah, fair enough. I don't really expect to "win anybody over", more a matter of expecting some reasonable discussion. Isn't to happen- the battle lines are drawn and the agenda will be dictated by professional operators who create non-issues.


Also fair enough on being silly but what exactly are we to do with Ollie et al other than to ignore (the wiser course) or try to make a bit of fun of such belligerent ignorance?


Whether Johnny did it first or not, Race is immaterial in the discussion of all of the major questions. I would be willing to accept that many of the posters here aren't so much racist as they are hopelessly naive- they don't understand that they rise to every dog whistle sent out by interests such as oil, pharma, wall street, the military security complex etc.


Repeat after me "whether I believe that the white race is being unduly put upon or not, it has nothing to do with the economy, energy, geoploitical matters etc."


John does have thing about Israel. I generally share his resentment for the influence the sovereign nation of Israel holds over our nation. But you really have to walk a fine line on that one to avoid charges of anti-semitism so I mostly just avoid joining in that particualr discussion here.


My experience says that Jewish Americans are on average a lot less hard line than the Likudniks or their brethren in the US Neocon establishment. There are certainly hard core JDL types around but the majority actually seem to be more reasonable than the hard core christianist crew. But neverthelss, commentary from gentiles needs to be offered with extreme caution.


Anyway, I'm outa here. Best, h

Veteran Advisor

Re: Nox, a little constructive criticism

On what all of thses distractions are keeping us from seeing and dealing with:


More accurate rundown on why Obama is probably already doomed to go down as a failure. or at least a big dissapointment.