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dagwud
Senior Contributor

Re: Unions cost lives?

Don: "NO CRIMINAL CHARGES WERE FILED. That statement should be enough to confirm the evidence was lacking. You want to fire someone because he is assumed by some to be guilty but no enough proof to put him away."

 

I find it odd Don that you will repeatedly criticize Repubs based on news reports you have read or seen in the media yet when it comes to a Dem or union member then there MUST be a criminal conviction to prove that person was a bad apple. 

 

All I can go by is the several news reports I read on the air traffic controller.  I'm assuming his boss who was quoted in the news story knows best what happened and what is going on.  According to the reports both cases were mistakes caused by the air traffic controller giving planes the wrong air space coordinates and not a case of pilot air.  Luckily the latest incident was spotted immediately by the air traffic controller who was going off shift and was being replaced by the air controller in question.  The story said the off shift controller was still in the room standing behind the air controller in question when he noticed the mistake. 

 

Ralph Humphrey, Beck's former boss, said he tried repeatedly last year to get the controller fired, but FAA officials in Washington ignored his requests.

 

"It's typical of trying to get rid of problem employees" at FAA, said Humphrey, who was the air traffic manager in Gulf port until he retired in January. "It is **bleep** difficult to get rid of an employee for cause."

 

I don't care if the air traffic controller is union or not.  Dem or Repub.  White or black.  If he can not safely do his job and repeatedly puts air traveler's lives at risk then the man should be fired.

 

I'm betting if you had a hired man on your farm and he forgot to put oil back in your new combine engine after changing the oil and you got stuck with a $10,000 engine over haul bill you would think differently on retaining or firing employees.  Pretty sure if your hired man made the same mistake twice you would let him go.  But somehow a union employee putting hundreds of lives at risk should get job protection and special treatment in your eyes???

 

Often times the offenses that can get one fired is not something that is handled in our criminal courts.  Other times witnesses refuse to cooperate as they don't want themselves or their children drug through a public court case and subject to cross examination by agressive defense attorneys.

g

Our local school had a male teacher that on several occasions had female high school students complaining about him looking down their blouses and being overly touchy with them to the point of being inappropriate.  No criminal charges were ever carried out although the school did put him on leave for a month while an investigation took place.  I had a close friend on the school board at the time when they eventually tried to fire this teacher because of repeated complaints by female students on his inappropriate behavior and the fact that he was by far the school's worse high school math teacher who refused to help students that "didn't get it the first time."  Also didn't help that this married teacher was caught by a janitor messing around with a female teacher after hours in the school building.  My friend said it was impossible for them to fire the teacher and they ended up getting rid of him by offering him an early retirement incentive package.

 

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

 

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/convicted-crimes-not-barred-teaching

 

James S. Williams Jr., taught special-education students at Virginia Beach’s Green Run High School before he was convicted last year of attempting to solicit sex from a minor.

Another special-education teacher, Jack N. Robinson, worked at Chesapeake’s Oscar Smith Middle School until students reported that they were shown inappropriate drawings. He was convicted in 2006 of possessing obscene materials.

Robert M. Hatcher, a former high school gym teacher in Hampton, pleaded guilty in 2006 to a child pornography charge after admitting to collecting and sharing explicit images of children for a decade.

All three continue to hold teaching licenses in Virginia.

They are among dozens of people in the state whose licenses weren’t revoked after criminal convictions

 

Here, I highlighted a few words, so that even a liberal could understand.

 

 

http://www2.oanow.com/news/2009/jun/09/editorial_fired_teachers_convicted_of_crimes_shoul-ar-503659/

It’s bad enough that a teacher lured a 14-year-old student for sex. It’s even worse that the teacher continues to draw a paycheck from her school system while serving a 10-year jail sentence.

Charlene Schmitz, who was found guilty in February 2008 of the sex crime in Washington County, was fired by the system after her conviction.

So why is she still getting paid?

 

 

 

 

They've killed, looted taxpayer funds and committed other heinous crimes --  but the city can't keep these criminals out of the classroom.

  More than 500 teachers convicted of crimes in the last five years -- from  drunken driving to assault to manslaughter -- are still skulking around the  schools because the Department of Education is hamstrung from getting rid of  them.

  Only those with sex-related convictions can be given the boot immediately  -- but the rest of the rogues' gallery gets to continue teaching throughout the  arduous process of disciplinary hearings, according to records obtained by The  Post.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/nyc_fire_proof_school_crooks_hEVEp3JWvGuP0oGwPRhCDP#ixzz1owkMB72q

(notice the word, CONVICTION????

 

I can do this all day, but as the saying goes, none is so blind, as he who refuses to see.

 

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

So now the FAA made the decision to keep him on. I assume the FAA investigated the event and came to a different conclusion than did his superior. Are you suggesting the FAA is incompetent? Do you think the FAA caved to union pressure? Do you have any evidence of that?

 

No you would rather assume that the union worker deserved firing and the FAA concluded that his error did not merit that. I doubt if the union had any say in it.

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

I assume that should a student or their parent brought legal action against the teacher it would be in the news. You want it to be a news item before it is one.

Red Steele
Veteran Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

get used to the sargent Schultz routine....Donny learned it from another chubby german on Hogan's Heros

 

"I see nothing...I hear NOTHING....NOTHING!"

 

ollie2655
Senior Contributor

Re: and thousands of jobs

because robots dont need stuwards--sick days --maternity leave etc etc etc

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

One might assume that the justice dept is inept in that they cannot prosecute criminals and put them away. You expect unions to out them when the school or the police cannot convict.

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

As I said, there is none so blind, as those who refuse to see: 

A blurb about a teacher, who is actually in jail, serving a 10 year sentance, yet continues to draw a paycheck.

Or, in your world, is someone who is serving a 10 year jail sentance, somehow, a criminal not prosecuted, and put away.  How are they in jail, if not prosecuted, and convicted?

 

From the post you replied to, the one 2 slots up.  I'll even highlight it, to better help you see it:

 

http://www2.oanow.com/news/2009/jun/09/editorial_f​ired_teachers_convicted_of_crimes_shoul-ar-503659...

It’s bad enough that a teacher lured a 14-year-old student for sex. It’s even worse that the teacher continues to draw a paycheck from her school system while serving a 10-year jail sentence.

Charlene Schmitz, who was found guilty in February 2008 of the sex crime in Washington County, was fired by the system after her conviction.

So why is she still getting paid?

 

 

 

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

Don't take it personal, Dag.  I posted a link, to a teacher convicted of a sex crime with a student, who is currently serving a 10 year jail sentance, while still drawing pay, and Kraft-t says it's not the union's fault that they are still drawing pay, as he says he can (and I quote) 'assume that the justice department is inept in that they cannon prosecute criminals and put them away'

 

dagwud
Senior Contributor

Re: Unions cost lives?

Are you sure Nixon ever did anything wrong or illegal regarding Watergate?  I don't recall him ever being convicted of any crimes.  Maybe Nixon never knew anything about all the wrong doings of the 43 people found guilty over Watergate including dozens of top Nixon officials?  Maybe it was all a smear campaign by Dems made to make Nixon look guilty of wrong doings?  Maybe Ted Kennedy held a secret hatred of Nixon for unflattering things he had said about JFK during the 1960 election and Ted orchestrated this secret smear campaign made to entrap and destroy Nixon.

 

 

I'm not so sure G. W. Bush lied about Iraq and WMD's while leading us in to war.  I don't recall Bush ever being convicted or found guilty.  Maybe Bush simply said what a speech writer had written about Iraq's WMD's and didn't know better?  Maybe the WMD's are still there in a really really good hiding place?  Maybe Saddam secretly shipped his huge stock of WMD's to Iran in the weeks before the war started?  Maybe all the bombs we dropped were lucky enough to have been direct hits on all the WMD's and they were all vaporized leaving no trace of then?

 

Now do you see how silly that all looks Don?