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kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

Would you favor executing a convicted killer before the appeals process is completed. That is what you are proposing  in this case.

 

There is always some little smidgeon of details that you fail to bring up in your comments. Did you leave the appeal process out in order to strengthen you argument that unions are blocking dismissal of convicted felons. It's not the unions at all but  the federal protection of the appeals process.

 

Somebody did decide that her rights would be preserved. The congress and the courts. Certainly not the union.

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

So you are saying that anybody that makes an inadvertent mistake that endangers peoples lives they must be dismissed? How about a pilot error that could be a calamity but is not? What about a police officer that is in hot pursuit that gets involved in a fender bender. Putting people at risk, dismissal? Or a school bus driver that slips off the edge of the road that could have caused great injury to his precious cargo? Fired or not?

 

Then assume they are all union members. Fire them or string them up? In your mind there is no gray or white in your appraisal of union workers. Only black no matter what the result. How did you ever develope such strong animosity for union workers? Your son or daughter or my son or daughter or my grandchildren. You assume they are all mindless louts just because they carry the union label.

 

Yes there is a difference between reckless endangerment and other mistakes.

rawhide
Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

i'll bet the farm if your family was killed in the crash of those 2 planes due to ineptness you would be screaming fo everybody's head to roll

gough whitlam
Senior Contributor

Re: Unions cost lives?

Dag - You do not have to bat for both sides on this one.  Your conservative politics has the inbred hatred for unions so to insult us by thinking you have a solf spot is absurd.   By suggesting unions cost lives is ridiculous.  The case in question has nothing to do with unions and you know so you are simply drawing a long bow to further the cause.  The flight controller would have firstly undergone an extensive examination to get the position, obviously.  He is now stood down, and rightly so, until an investigation into his problems is had.  For all we know he might have problems at home, have a drug problem or just simply made two mistakes.  But to blame the unions for the possible loss of life in the future is totally ridiculous.  Have a think about such things before you rush to jam the unions.

 

How's the treatment going mate?

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

I don't beleive anyone was killed in this event. If some one had been, I suspect that there would be people seeking answers as to what caused the crash. That is why the FAA always investigates these matters and renders judgement according to the facts.

 

Like the legal system they examine the evidence before they render judgement. Some folks want to render judgement before the facts are fully known. And others like to punish the individual even after the FAA  decided that firing wasn't merited. But then perhaps you  know more than the trained staff of the FAA.

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?


@kraft-t wrote:

Would you favor executing a convicted killer before the appeals process is completed. That is what you are proposing  in this case.

 

You are comparing executing somebody before the appeals process is completed, to docking the pay of someone who is in jail?  Tell me, is she teaching from jail, or is she getting paid for 'nothing'?

Re-read the link.

She was accused of using the internet to lure a student, a minor, for sex.

She had a jury trial.

She was found guilty by a unaimous jury vote, with under 2 hours of deliberation.

She was FIRED by the shcool district.

Yet, she continues to draw pay, her full salary and benefits.


You mean to tell me, you agree with this sort of thing???

 

 

There is always some little smidgeon of details that you fail to bring up in your comments. Did you leave the appeal process out in order to strengthen you argument that unions are blocking dismissal of convicted felons. It's not the unions at all but  the federal protection of the appeals process.

 

No, it is not.  The teacher's union in that State, got the law written so that convicted felons continue to draw pay, until after arbitration.  Arbitration can not occur, until any criminal court cases, and appeals processes are completed. 

You accuse me of not getting my facts straight, yet you have some wrong just in the last sentance or two.

The whole story is in the link, including the name of the teacher, the State this happened in, and even the school district in which it happened.  If you have some facts in the case that I have wrong, it should be a simple matter to prove me wrong.  So far, I have been getting a lot of baloney, and falsehoods from yourself, with nothinhg to back it up except hot air.

 

Somebody did decide that her rights would be preserved. The congress and the courts. Certainly not the union.

 

 

Before you say it was 'certainly not the union', why don't you look up who lobbied to get the laws in that State to read the way they do, when it comes to teachers, and the dismissal process? 
Again, you have some facts wrong just in these couple little sentances.  Congress has nothing to do with it, it is a State law, which is clearly stated in the link I provided.  Try reading it, you might learn something.

 

 

 


 

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

There you go agin, making up stuff, as you go.


I challenge you to find where I ever said anything bad about all unions, or all union workers.  In fact, I have praised our local linesman union in the past.   However, anyone with their eyes open, can see there are instances of abuse.


What I have done, is spotlighted some of the most grevious wrongdoings, to get them out in the spotlight, so that the rules can be straightened out, and make things fair, for everybody.  If people turn a blind eye to misdeeds simply because they were perpetrated by someone on 'their side' of an issue, makes them enablers of the misdeeds.

 

I noticed, all through this thread, with all of your arguing, you have yet to prove that anything I have said was innacurate, instead you have,

 

Sidestepped the issue]

Ignored the fact, and have borderline

Name called.

 

What would be so wrong, about not paying a teacher while they are in jail?  If they appeal, and get acquitted, they can get back-pay.  Why pay them after a conviction, and for several years after.  Is she going to give the money back, or keep it?
If she gets to keep it, can you please tell me why that should be?

 

cotman03
Senior Contributor

The real problem with the ATC union.......

is that this happens time and time again and not much happens.  Maybe a suspension here and there but that's all.  Remember the reports of controllers asleep on the job when planes were trying to land last year?

 

Government employees have some very solid job security.  I understand it to a certain degree because politicians could come in and make serious changes every few years.  That wouldn't be a good situation either but incompetency or multiple mistakes when lives are on the line should get you fired.  Shirley Sherrod last year told her audience that they should seek employment with the federal government because it was hard to get fired. 

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

The law is the law no matter who lobbied for what. Unions don't pass laws but they do have a right to lobby for provisions as you have the right to oppose them. Some times you win and sometimes you lose but you are not to good at accepting that.

 

 The appeal process is really important in that a judge and jury cannot rush to judgement an do the defendent great harm without allowing him that process.Until the appeal is complete it looks like your punishment is at a stand still.

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Unions cost lives?

Did you ever consider that the defendent may have dependents at home requiring her support? So does the public have any responsibility to them until her case is finalized by the judicial system?