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Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

How many of you, who don't like the AR-15, would go along with BA, and agree to ban the AR, with the understanding that you would oppose any farther gun bans?

I'd join that group.  Heck, you could include all AR clones, as well as all other semi-auto rifles with magazines over 10 rounds.

 

Are you guys willing to go along with that, or is BA correct in assuming that before long, you'd just want to add another gun to the list, and then another, and another?

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

Hey Nebrfarmr, I sleep with a pillow under my gun, I hope that doesn`t make me a "gun nut"Smiley Wink   The word of the day is....Incrementalism....incrementalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incrementalism   Folks like Canuck and Gough believe that for the "good" of humanity all guns must be taken.  And since us peons don`t know what`s good for us and have this damned 2nd amendment.  For our own good of course, to confiscate "scary" guns first.  That won`t solve the problem, so after "scary" guns are gone we work on "handguns"...then it`ll be .30-06 deer rifles..."They`re tooo powerfull!!!  You can buy beef in the supermarket".   Oh I supose they`ll let you keep a .22 or a shotgun ..if you possess no more than 10 shells for each...."that`s all you neeeeed"  .  They need to do this "incrementally"  because to spring the whole load on us neanderthals, our "simple minds" couldn`t handle it so it will be done incrementally.

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

I agree.  I have no problem if they would 'ban' the sale of semi auto rifles with over 30 round magazines, provided that it was written into the law, that the ban would be null and void, the instant any farther gun bans were brough forward to a vote in Congress.

 

BTW, do you use gun oil, instead of hair gel, to prevent rust?  I've heard its all the rage, LOL.

 

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

No BA, not ban guns 'control' them. Speaking for myself, I will let Gough speak for himself.

There are legitimate uses for guns.

 

Now go back to the article and re-read it.

The points I am seeing is your country is on some kind of paranoid love in with guns where way too many people think they have to have a gun just to have a gun.

They are never going to have a legitimate use for it but the culture has them terrified that, as other post say, 'some drug crazed' person is going to break into their home and their gun is going to save them.

The actual fact is their gun is a much greater risk to their safety than and 'crazed druggy' will ever be. 

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Canuck_2 wrote:

No BA, not ban guns 'control' them. Speaking for myself, I will let Gough speak for himself.

There are legitimate uses for guns.

 

Now go back to the article and re-read it.

The points I am seeing is your country is on some kind of paranoid love in with guns where way too many people think they have to have a gun just to have a gun.

They are never going to have a legitimate use for it but the culture has them terrified that, as other post say, 'some drug crazed' person is going to break into their home and their gun is going to save them.

The actual fact is their gun is a much greater risk to their safety than and 'crazed druggy' will ever be. 


 

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

Okay Canuck Smiley Happy in "your perfect world" would us law abiding private citizens be able to own a AR-15 with a couple 30rd mags and 10,000rds of ammo?   Or what would gun ownership look like in your perfect world?..let`s cut to the chase here.   My perfect world with gun regulation is the way gun laws have been the last 5 yrs...there I showed you mine, now you show us yours.

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

I personally think that many of those 'studies' are not telling the entire story.  

For example, accidental gun deaths for 2007 (the most recent year I could find) were 613.

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm  (at the bottom of the article)

Drug related homocides averaged over 1100 per year, for the 5 year period of 2006-2010.

 

 

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

I personally think that many of those 'studies' are not telling the entire story.  

For example, accidental gun deaths for 2007 (the most recent year I could find) were 613.

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm  (at the bottom of the article)

Drug related homocides averaged over 1100 per year, for the 5 year period of 2006-2010.

 

 


Yes many studies do not 'tell the truth'.

So how about a study that uses a number of other studies to come to a conclussion.

 

Read this article and at the bottom of it you can find a link to the study it is talking about to see if the study is 'telling the truth' or not.

Yes this is an opinion piece but based on a study which you can check out.

 

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home


BENEFITS

The possible health benefits of gun ownership are twofold: deterring crime and stopping crimes in progress. But there are no credible studies, says Hemenway, that higher levels of gun ownership actually do these things.

“The main reason people give for having a handgun in the home is protection, typically against stranger violence,” he writes. “However, it is important to recognize that the home is a relatively safe place, especially from strangers. For example, fewer than 30% of burglaries in the United States (2003-2007) occur when someone is at home. In the 7% of burglaries when violence does occur, the burglar is more likely to be an intimate (current or former) and also more likely to be a relative or known acquaintance than a stranger. Although people typically spend most of their time at home, only 5% of all the crimes of violence perpetrated by strangers occur at home.”

In fact, adds Hemenway, research shows that most self-defense use of guns is not socially desirable. He describes one study in which “criminal court judges from across the United States read the 35 descriptions of the reported self-defense firearm uses from 2 national surveys and found that, even if description of the event was accurate, in most of the cases, the self-defense gun use was probably illegal. Many were arguments that escalated into gun use.”

Real risks

“There are real and imaginary situations when it might be beneficial to have a gun in the home,” Hemenway concludes. “For example, in the Australian film Mad Max, where survivors of the apocalypse seem to have been predominantly psychopathic male bikers, having a loaded gun would seem to be very helpful for survival, and public health experts would probably advise people in that world to obtain guns.”

“However, for most contemporary Americans, the scientific studies suggest that the health risk of a gun in the home is greater than the benefit,” he adds.  “There are no credible studies that indicate otherwise.”

Hemenway’s review appeared in the American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine and can be read in full online.

 

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@BA Deere wrote:

Okay Canuck Smiley Happy in "your perfect world" would us law abiding private citizens be able to own a AR-15 with a couple 30rd mags and 10,000rds of ammo?   Or what would gun ownership look like in your perfect world?..let`s cut to the chase here.   My perfect world with gun regulation is the way gun laws have been the last 5 yrs...there I showed you mine, now you show us yours.


Here is some reading for you.

It is from your 'perfect world'.

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/31/1183762/-Another-day-in-the-gun-crazy-U-S-A

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Canuck_2 wrote:

@Nebrfarmr wrote:

I personally think that many of those 'studies' are not telling the entire story.  

For example, accidental gun deaths for 2007 (the most recent year I could find) were 613.

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm  (at the bottom of the article)

Drug related homocides averaged over 1100 per year, for the 5 year period of 2006-2010.

 

 


Yes many studies do not 'tell the truth'.

So how about a study that uses a number of other studies to come to a conclussion.

 

Read this article and at the bottom of it you can find a link to the study it is talking about to see if the study is 'telling the truth' or not.

Yes this is an opinion piece but based on a study which you can check out.

 

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-homeBenefits?

The possible health benefits of gun ownership are twofold: deterring crime and stopping crimes in progress. But there are no credible studies, says Hemenway, that higher levels of gun ownership actually do these things.

 

I thought Kleck did a very thorough job, what did he do that is not 'credible'?

On that same note, there is NO credible evidence, that strcter gun laws, have reduced crime, anywhere in the USA.  In fact, most places that put strong anti-gun laws, or even bans on certain types of guns, such as the DC handgun ban, actually saw an increase in crimes with those very weapons.

 

“The main reason people give for having a handgun in the home is protection, typically against stranger violence,” he writes.

 

I notice he says 'typically' against strangers.   I disagree with this to some extent, because I personally know some women, who got a gun, as a last-ditch defense against a KNOWN threat, such as a stalker, or husband/boyfriend that beat them.

 

“However, it is important to recognize that the home is a relatively safe place, especially from strangers. For example, fewer than 30% of burglaries in the United States (2003-2007) occur when someone is at home. In the 7% of burglaries when violence does occur, the burglar is more likely to be an intimate (current or former) and also more likely to be a relative or known acquaintance than a stranger. Although people typically spend most of their time at home, only 5% of all the crimes of violence perpetrated by strangers occur at home.”

 

That is why many people support carry laws, for protection when they are NOT at home.  They will, of course, have the gun 'at home' when they are at home.  Where else would they keep it?

 

In fact, adds Hemenway, research shows that most self-defense use of guns is not socially desirable. He describes one study in which “criminal court judges from across the United States read the 35 descriptions of the reported self-defense firearm uses from 2 national surveys and found that, even if description of the event was accurate, in most of the cases, the self-defense gun use was probably illegal. Many were arguments that escalated into gun use.”

 

So, if someone comes at me with a tire iron, it is better to let him bash my head in, than 'escalate' the situation, with a gun?

 

Real risks

“There are real and imaginary situations when it might be beneficial to have a gun in the home,” Hemenway concludes. “For example, in the Australian film Mad Max, where survivors of the apocalypse seem to have been predominantly psychopathic male bikers, having a loaded gun would seem to be very helpful for survival, and public health experts would probably advise people in that world to obtain guns.”

“However, for most contemporary Americans, the scientific studies suggest that the health risk of a gun in the home is greater than the benefit,” he adds.  “There are no credible studies that indicate otherwise.” 

Hemenway’s review appeared in the American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine and can be read in full online.

 

I in no way can claim I read every 'study', but the ones I have looked into, have used blanket statements, like 'your gun is more likely to harm yourself, or someone you know, than a stranger that breaks into your house'.  While technically true, the ones I have seen, will include shooting an ex-husband, who broke a restraining order, and is bashing his way though the front door, as 'shooting someone you know', even though it is in no way harming an 'innocent' victim.  I would link to the review listed, but what appears to be a link (the underlined part) doesn't do anything.